Evidence of meeting #13 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mulroney.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I will now turn the floor over to my colleague, Serge Ménard.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Thank you, Mr. Spector, and I accept your assessment, but I will say right away that I disagree with you. A committee of this type cannot get to the bottom of things, unless it takes a very long time, probably longer than the time available to a government. We have just a few minutes to ask questions of each witness. That is nothing compared to a commission of inquiry.
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I was most impressed by your skill in questioning Mr. Mulroney. I was really struck by your extraordinary...
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Don't waste time congratulating me. You can do that later. Let's get down to the issues at hand.
You have mentioned some figures: $5,000 a month, for a total of $60,000 a year. In nine months, you saw $100,000 come into the residence. Am I to understand from your testimony that all of this money to cover the Mulroneys' expenses came from the same source, namely the PC Fund?
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
At the beginning of your presentation you spoke about the lobbyist culture. An individual who wanted to influence the government one way or another could not give money to the Prime Minister, who would have never accepted it, but could give money to the PC Fund, and assume that a representative of the PC Fund would raise the issue with the Prime Minister.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
No, I am speaking out against the situation that existed in Ottawa formerly, and which still exists, in my view.
During his testimony, Mr. Schreiber, an international businessman, said that a lobbyist had to be hired in order to do business with the Government of Canada.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
That is all the time I have, but I would like to say one thing: in Quebec, everyone believes that this would never have happened to René Lévesque.
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
But you also had... I remember the matter involving the Oxygène 9 company, for example. I said it was a problem involving two parties here in Ottawa, because there are two other parties, the New Democrats and the Bloc, that have never been in government. However, that is not true in Quebec. So there are some stories—
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Spector, for being here and taking part in this wretched process. As wretched as it might be, it is all we have currently, and we don't know how narrow the scope of the full public inquiry might be.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Let me get right to an issue that concerns us, Mr. Spector.
Mr. Mulroney has said over and over again that he had absolutely nothing to do with the choice of Air Canada to purchase the Airbus product. Yet he fired 13 of the 15 members of the board of directors of Air Canada during 1985, and I believe you would have been the chief of staff at—
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
No, I was not even in Ottawa during those years.
I arrived in Ottawa in 1986, so in fact when the RCMP came to ACOA looking for the copy of the agreement in our files, because ACOA was the lead agency, it was only by accident that I was there. They didn't come looking for me for a statement about Bear Head. I started talking to the sergeant, and it came out that I had been in the PMO, and he asked, do you know anything about Airbus? I said no, that was before my time, but I know about Bear Head.
So I'm sorry.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Fair enough. I will move on, then, perhaps to the influence of corporate lobbyists—it's a great concern for us as well—and the frequency and the regularity of visits into the PMO. You said some of these meetings weren't scheduled; people such as Frank Moores were coming and going.
Not Frank Moores?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
Of Frank Moores, I had no.... I'm not even sure. I was speaking about Mr. Doucet.
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I met once with him after I was handed the Bear Head file. I met with him to get his side of the story. It was that process that eventually led to my telling Mr. Mulroney that—
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I see, 1990.
Mr. Mulroney swore in an affidavit that in 1996 he had only passing acquaintance and very few dealings with Mr. Schreiber. Would you be able to say anything about the veracity of that statement?
