Evidence of meeting #15 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was schreiber.
A recording is available from Parliament.
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NDP
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As an Individual
I would suggest to you that access to the PMO is not that valuable in promoting your business to Ottawa.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Mr. Alford, that concludes our questioning for you. We thank you very much for appearing before us, and you are now excused, sir.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Colleagues, we're going to move immediately to Mr. Doucet. I anticipate we are going to be going over the normal meeting time by 15 to 20 minutes.
Our final witness is Mr. Doucet, who was the senior adviser to former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and was chief of staff when Mr. Mulroney was leader of the official opposition. In his role as senior adviser to the Prime Minister, Mr. Doucet was responsible for international initiatives and summits for the Office of the Prime Minister.
Since leaving government in 1988, he's carried on business under the name Fred Doucet Consultants International.
Good afternoon, Mr. Doucet.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
On December 15, it was suggested to us that you be a priority witness. We thank you for agreeing to appear before us today voluntarily.
I would now ask the assistant clerk to swear you in, sir.
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The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Erica Pereira
Raise your right hand and repeat after me: The evidence I shall give on this examination shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
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As an Individual
The evidence I shall give on this examination shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Now, you heard the instructions I gave to the previous witness, so I will not repeat them. Of course we look forward to your testimony.
I understand that you have an opening statement of about 10 minutes or so. Time is prime, but I think it's extremely important that we take the time to hear what you have to say to the committee and to Canadians.
I invite you to proceed now.
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As an Individual
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the invitation to appear today.
I will begin my presentation with a brief personal background, followed by an overview of the business interactions between me, Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber, and the Right Honourable Brian Mulroney. I will conclude by addressing specific false statements made by Mr. Schreiber in regard to or involving me.
I was the chief of staff to Mr. Mulroney when he was the Leader of the Opposition during the period 1983 to 1984. I served as a senior adviser to Prime Minister Mulroney from September 1984 until May 1987. I was chairman of the organizing committee for international summits from May 1987 until August 1988.
I incorporated FDCI Incorporated in the fall of 1988. I was at that time the sole officer, director, and shareholder of that company. I carry on business under that corporate name today.
Contrary to allegations made by this committee, made at this committee and in the press, I have never been an officer, a director, a shareholder, and/or an employee of a company known as GCI, Government Consultants International Inc., —at any time.
To the best of my recollection, I met Karlheinz Schreiber for the first time late in 1988. I was registered as a lobbyist for Bitucan Holdings Limited, as well as Bear Head Industries Limited, in October 1989—and after this discussion, I will provide copies of these lobby registration documents to the clerk of the committee. In that capacity, my company assisted Mr. Schreiber in his efforts to establish in Canada a manufacturing facility for military vehicles.
It is alleged by Mr. Schreiber that I set up certain meetings between myself and Mr. Mulroney in 1993 and 1994. I have no recollection that I had any role to play in setting up meetings between Mr. Mulroney and Mr. Schreiber that took place on June 23, 1993, and December 18, 1993.
I do specifically recall that I did arrange for the two of them to meet at Mirabel airport in late August 1993, and in New York on December 8, 1994. Furthermore, it is also my recollection that it was Mr. Schreiber who requested both of those meetings. Mr. Schreiber requested the August 1993 meeting to discuss a possible retainer-consultancy relationship with Mr. Mulroney in the promotion of Thyssen military vehicles in the international area. I was not present at this August 1993 meeting.
In regard to the meeting in New York, I was one of a number of guests invited to attend a reception for Elmer MacKay and his wife on the occasion of their recent wedding. The reception was held at the Pierre Hotel in New York City. Mr. Mulroney and Mr. Schreiber were also in attendance.
At the request of Mr. Schreiber, I arranged for him to meet with Mr. Mulroney on that occasion. I was in attendance for the meeting between the two of them, which lasted approximately one to one and one-half hours, at the hotel in Mr. Schreiber's room. At this meeting, Mr. Schreiber provided written materials to Mr. Mulroney. The two of them discussed various matters involving Mr. Mulroney's ongoing consultancy work that he had undertaken in the international arena in regard to the promotion of Thyssen military vehicles.
Mr. Mulroney reported on the meetings he had had with the presidents of Russia and France and the Chinese leadership, and his view that these countries, being members of the P5 group—that is, China, Russia, U.K., France, and the U.S.—could play an important role in the United Nations peacekeeping initiatives, where the use of Thyssen military vehicles might be very appropriate.
It is my recollection that Mr. Schreiber appeared to be quite satisfied with the report and the comments made to him by Mr. Mulroney. At the end of the meeting, Mr. Schreiber handed Mr. Mulroney an envelope, indicating that it contained a payment for services and expenses.
Over the course of the next five years, 1995 to late 1999, I have no specific recall of any direct contact with Karlheinz Schreiber except for a phone call from him, in November 1995, alerting me that he had learned of a letter being sent from the justice department of the Government of Canada to the Swiss authorities relating to Airbus matters.
Mr. Schreiber alleges that I arranged a meeting for him and Mr. Mulroney in February 1998 in Zurich. I have no recollection that I had any role to play in arranging that meeting.
In the fall of 1999, I watched the fifth estate program dealing with Karlheinz Schreiber, among others. I found that program troubling because of a number of inaccuracies and innuendoes that were reported.
At the suggestion of a mutual friend, I invited Mr. Schreiber and his wife to visit with me and my family at my home in Ottawa on December 26, 1999. During that time, he and I discussed a number of recent events, including the concerns we both had regarding the inaccuracies reported in the fifth estate program. He also indicated to me that he was planning a lawsuit against the fifth estate program. We agreed to meet in the near future to discuss these matters further.
We met again in January 2000 in Toronto, while I was attending meetings in that city. We continued our discussions that began on December 26, 1999, including the agreement that he had with Mr. Mulroney.
I reported to Mr. Mulroney on my discussions with Mr. Schreiber, with Mr. Schreiber's knowledge and approval. I suggested to Mr. Mulroney that I meet again with Mr. Schreiber to present in writing what had been the mandate as it had been described to me by Mr. Schreiber himself.
I met again with Mr. Schreiber in my office in Ottawa in early February 2000, where I presented him with a written statement on the mandate, consistent with what he had represented it to be, and on which Mr. Mulroney concurred.
In this draft mandate statement, I left open, by way of a blank, the identification of the companies responsible for the mandate and the fees to cover services and expenses. In his own handwriting, Mr. Schreiber wrote the following: “Bayerische Bitumen-Chemie”; “Kaufering”; and “Bitucan Calgary”.
I circled the two company names identified by Mr. Schreiber as the mandating companies. The balance of the handwriting on the mandate document is mine, recording the rest of the information given to me by Mr. Schreiber.
I asked him what the fee was. He told me that the fee to cover services and expenses had been set at $250,000.
I will provide the committee with copies of this document at the termination of this meeting.
I have no specific recollection of any further contact with Mr. Schreiber subsequent to February 2000.
Mr. Schreiber has made a number of false statements involving me which I would like to address.
Mr. Schreiber alleges that I had a discussion with him in 1992 or 1993 about Mr. Mulroney needing money, and further, that I suggested he assist Mr. Mulroney financially. This statement is false. No such conversation ever took place.
Mr. Schreiber was quoted in the Toronto Star on December 14, 2007. He said that during the December 8, 1994, meeting at the Pierre Hotel in New York, I—meaning me—was peering out of the window and talking on my cell phone. That statement is false. During this meeting I was seated the full time directly across from Mr. Schreiber and next to Mr. Mulroney. Moreover, on December 8, 1994, fully over 13 years ago, I did not own or use a cell phone.
Before this committee on December 6, 2007, Mr. Schreiber alleged that I requested him to make a donation to Mr. Jean Charest for his 1993 leadership campaign. That is false.
In an affidavit sworn by Mr. Schreiber on November 7, 2007, and in testimony before this committee on December 6, 2007, Mr. Schreiber alleges that I had a meeting with him at the offices of GCI sometime in late 1992 or early 1993. He alleges that I asked him to speak to Frank Moores to request that Mr. Moores send an unspecified amount of GCI money to Mr. Mulroney's alleged lawyer in Switzerland. Furthermore, Mr. Schreiber also flippantly alleges before this committee that I may have been trying to obtain money for myself by using the alleged “Mulroney lawyer” in Geneva.
Since this alleged event never occurred, these statements made by Mr. Schreiber are false. I did not know any lawyers in Geneva, Switzerland, or indeed anywhere else in that country. Mr. Mulroney has already testified that he did not have a lawyer in Geneva at that period of time. Furthermore, the principals of GCI at that time were Mr. Frank Moores and Mr. Gary Ouellet. Both of these gentlemen, who are now deceased, were long-time friends of mine. I would never have needed anyone to intercede for me on any matter with either of these two friends.
To reiterate, no such meeting ever took place, no such request was ever made. These allegations made by Mr. Schreiber are completely false.
Mr. Chairman, I trust I have provided the committee with the information pertinent to its mandate for the examination of this matter. I would like to distribute the mandate document, if I could. I have printed some for everyone.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Thank you very much.
There is one quick question from the chair. Have you any idea how much money was passed over to Mr. Mulroney at the Pierre Hotel?
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Did Mr. Mulroney ever say anything to you at any time about how much money he was receiving from Mr. Schreiber in these three meetings?
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Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, Fred Doucet.
Regrettably your brother wasn't able to come here. I understand that he's not well. I hope this day finds him better, and best wishes to him. I had the occasion to share the graduation stage at Université Sainte-Anne when he received his honorary doctorate.
You worked for Karlheinz Schreiber as a lobbyist after you left the Prime Minister's Office and formed Fred Doucet Consulting. Is that correct?
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I registered in the fall of 1989, if my memory serves me right. That registration will be distributed. I believe I got on the payroll in February 1990.
5:20 p.m.
As an Individual
It ended in terms of pay in the fall of 1992. I kept an interest because I really believed in the program beyond that. But my services de facto had ended by the end of 1992.
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Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
After 1993 when Brian Mulroney left office, did you continue working in some capacity on this file?
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As an Individual
No, not really. I say “not really” because Mr. Schreiber would call me periodically or ask me questions, and if I had the answers, I would provide them. But I was not on the payroll.
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Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
When you were on the payroll, how did you get paid? Did you get paid by cash, bank transfers to your company, cheques?
