Evidence of meeting #47 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conservative.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:30 p.m.
As an Individual
They made legitimate buys on the market. I'm sure these were at market prices or whatever the market bears, or whatever discount one gets for elections—
3:30 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I'm sorry to interrupt you, sir, but then do you maintain that the $49,000 was in fact a local campaign expense as per the rules?
3:30 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, as per the rules—although the rules are flexible. To me, the rules are flexible in advertising; they always have been. People in this House have never really defined what is and what isn't, because all ridings associations, all parties had—
3:30 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Although we had the Chief Electoral Officer, sir, as the first witness here, trying to explain very clearly what is a national expense and what is a local expense and that you're not allowed to transfer an expense from one to the other. Money you can transfer, but not the expenses. That's the disagreement here, and maybe it is still a grey area, but it's not coming down very well on the side of the Conservative Party's interpretation now, as the rest of the country seems to understand it.
August 12th, 2008 / 3:30 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Lowry, you've been a long-time Conservative, I understand, for eight years, and you've been involved with fundraising—
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
That's a pretty good start.
When you saw this nearly $50,000 coming to you, did you ask those who sent it to your association if you could spend it?
3:30 p.m.
As an Individual
Well, I actually kept it for a week, because when I tried to send it back, the wire didn't work. It's kind of embarrassing, as I work for a bank, and this didn't work.
3:30 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
3:30 p.m.
As an Individual
So I actually kept the money for a week and then it went back.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Did you try to spend it? Did you ask if you could spend it? It seemed that you had a need for brochures, that you had a need for advertising.
3:35 p.m.
As an Individual
I work for a bank. The national party has people who are in the advertising business who do all that sort of stuff. If I were to go out and spend it, I would have to become an expert in advertising. I have a day job at the same time; I have other things going on and volunteer stuff that I do. I'm not going into the advertising business just during a campaign.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
As an official agent, then, did you authorize any group to spend that money?
3:35 p.m.
As an Individual
When I sent the money back to Ottawa, it was authorized to spend it.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Why do you think, Mr. Lowry—you talk about your experience in finance—that money went to you?
3:35 p.m.
As an Individual
It was because in the 2005 campaign my riding association did not receive a refund. That means we had to start from scratch. One year later we had an election. We managed to raise or spend $21,000. Actually, we ran a deficit for the first little while, but we spent $21,000. I have $80,000 in my cap, so net, $80,000 minus $20,000 is $60,000. They came to me because I spent only $20,000. If I had won or if my candidate had gotten 5% more the last time, I would have had $40,000—I already had $20,000—and probably would never have used the buy-in.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Mr. Lowry, I think what you're telling us is that by channelling that $50,000 to your account—60% of $50,000 would be about $30,000—you, as the president of a riding association, would have gotten about $30,000, because the money simply moved through your account.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
If you ask me about ethics in Ottawa, I don't think it's ethical that when I was a CFO you'd get a 75% tax break for donating $100 to a party and when I donate to the United Way I only get 29%. I don't think that's ethical. There are so many things about this place that I don't think are terribly ethical. But they're the rules that exist.
If you want to change the rules, I would love you to change those rules. I would love you to do that sort of stuff—
3:35 p.m.
Liberal