Information & Ethics Committee on Aug. 14th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order.

This is meeting 49 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Our order of the day is a motion adopted by the committee that states:

That the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics investigate the actions of the Conservative Party of Canada during the 2006 election, in relation to which Elections Canada has refused to reimburse Conservative candidates for certain election campaign expenses in order to determine if these actions meet the ethical standards expected of public office holders.

This morning we have witnesses, first, from the Public Prosecution Service of Canada. We have with us Madame Chantal Proulx, who is the acting deputy director of public prosecutions; and Mr. Don Beardall, the senior counsel. Then, following that, we have the Chief Electoral Officer.

I would ask the clerk to please swear in the witnesses.

Colleagues, Mr. Brian Saunders, who is the public prosecutor, discussed with me late last week the possibility of being able to make a brief opening statement by Ms. Proulx simply to advise the committee about who they are and what their responsibilities are, so that we are guided. I would like to ask the committee for its approval to permit a brief five-minute opening statement by Chantal Proulx with regard to introducing the public prosecutor's office. Would that be acceptable? Thank you.

After that, we'll move directly to questions.

Thank you kindly for appearing. Madame Proulx, I know you and Mr. Beardall are aware that in appearing before a committee you are covered under parliamentary privilege and that nothing you say before this committee can be used against you in any other proceedings. I know you're well aware of that, and I would like to simply ask you to proceed now with your opening statement as approved by the committee.

Mr. Tilson, you want the floor?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I just want to ask you a question. I have seen the orders of the day. Is Mr. Mayrand coming this morning or is he coming this afternoon?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

He will come before us on completion of the public prosecutor's office. He will be here momentarily.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Do we have a timeframe for these witnesses, or how are you conducting this meeting this morning?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We're going to hear from the witnesses, and as you know, the committee is the master of its time schedule. We will deal with these witnesses until the members have satisfied themselves that they've asked their questions. We'll excuse them and then bring Mr. Mayrand. So I can only speculate on how long that will be.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Okay, that's fine. Thank you.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

On a point of order, please, Mr. Chair, we have a witness here, Mr. Sam Goldstein, who I just heard present himself to you. He has explained to me that he received his summons at 4:30 on Monday to appear here on Tuesday. He called the clerk and said that wouldn't be possible on such short notice. He's here now, and I heard you tell him to go and sit at the back of the room.

I'm requesting that he be allowed to sit and testify and that you inform us if any side deals have been made with these witnesses or any other ones.

I'm asking you, sir. We have room for this witness.

I suppose I should ask the committee to allow a medium change in the procedures to put one more witness at this table so we can hear more than half the truth.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Just a moment.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

You can't go out to the media and say people who were summonsed didn't show, when you're not allowing people who were summonsed to sit at the table.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, colleagues.

Mr. Goldstein is the past candidate in the riding of Trinity—Spadina. I think I should simply advise the committee what transpired in our contacts.

He was left messages on July 28. He finally got back and said he was only available on August 12, which was two days ago. He wanted to be paid up front for his expenses and said he would decide whether to come or not. He asked how many people were coming and if people were being summonsed. We heard nothing further after that. On August 1, I issued the summons. I sent the summons to Kilrea and associates. On August 11, Mr. Goldstein contacted us and said he had received his summons. On August 12, he called again and said he would not appear on his scheduled date. That was two days ago. He said he would not appear on his scheduled date—that being August 12—but would rather come on Thursday.

So we have a situation here where we have had contact with this honourable gentleman, and he did not agree to appear on the date we asked, and so it's up to the committee to determine whether or not....

After we made the determination of the availability of witnesses, we grouped witnesses of like persons so that candidates and official agents would be together, so that questions wouldn't have to be repeated in different panels if you could have like people together, candidates and official agents together.

So we're faced now with a situation where we have the public prosecutor's office. The questions to them will have nothing to do with a candidate per se. Following that, we have scheduled Mr. Mayrand. These two items will take at least, I would think, until 11:30, maybe 12 o'clock, and then we have our meetings with regard to our business for dealing with Mr. Martin's question about discussing our plan to deal with witnesses who did not appear, as well as to discuss future witnesses and future meetings. So that is our plan for the day.

Mr. Goldstein happens to be here. I wasn't aware, but he is here, and some honourable members would like to hear from him today. Now, it's up to the committee to decide whether it will slot him in somewhere and where.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

In light of that, Mr. Chairman, I move that Mr. Goldstein be welcomed to the witness table now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I'm sorry, we had a list. The first on the list was Madam Redman.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Yes, but I have a motion. I've made a motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

The first person I have to recognize—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You asked the committee, Mr. Chairman, and in response to that I made a motion. You asked the committee and here is a motion. Let's have debate on it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I understand that, but I have a speakers list, sir.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

But a speakers list on the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I have a speakers list to be recognized after I—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

A speakers list on what?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

On the matter of how to deal with Mr. Goldstein.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Well, I've made a motion, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I understand that, but you were not--

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Well, you can't just have a little chat with Mrs. Redman. The issue is, there's a motion on the floor.

[An hon. member]

The motion is on the floor.