Evidence of meeting #25 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was backlog.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Commissioner, when I look at a more than 30% decrease in the backlog, I'm looking at it from a private perspective. I was running a business. When the manager who runs my business brings in a 30% better performance than expected, and then comes back to me and says that he wants to reduce this backlog and clear this backlog.... The only motive I see, even though you might not agree, from this commerce perspective, is that they don't like to be open or transparent, and they want this backlog to grow.
How much longer will it take...?
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Let's be careful. Let's keep the partisanship down here. Let's see if we can just tidy off with points, facts.
5:30 p.m.
An hon. member
Apologize.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
No, I'm not going to apologize.
This is where I'm heading, Mr. Chair. I want to know. If there is a 30% performance on this side, and then we see every week the Minister of Finance coming up with billions of dollars in deficit, what is it we aren't doing to make sure this backlog is gone?
How much money do you think you need to totally clean up the backlog, and how long would it take, Commissioner?
5:30 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The backlog will be pulverized, to use my colleague's language, by the end of this fiscal year, with this money. But this is not just about the backlog. This is part of the backlog strategy, but it's a new business model so we don't get back into a backlog. To be fair, we have the money to deal with the backlog, including this supplementary estimate. It was the systemic issues that were refused and will cause us to have to reallocate internally to try to deliver at least the status quo, if not status quo minus a little bit, on systemic issues. But as far as the backlog is concerned, I am confident that by the end of this fiscal year it will be dealt with.
The A-base plan takes us over six years, with a carry-over of about 500 cases a year because they come in at the tail end and that sort of thing. If we have an inventory of about 500 cases going forward from fiscal year to fiscal year, we will have managed the backlog.
I didn't invent the backlog; I inherited it. It's not just that one government didn't believe in the ATIA, because there were several governments in office over the life of the backlog. There's a whole series of issues, including underfunding. It would be unfair for me to say I can pin this on lack of will or specific will of any government.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
In fact you're saying, directly or indirectly, that if you do not get this money, even though you'll be able to manage this backlog, you will also accumulate backlog. Is that true?
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Let me restate that. If we don't get this money, the supplementary A, the backlog strategy is at peril. Not only is the backlog strategy at peril, but the program is at peril, because the five extra resources we got in 2005-2006 lapsed on March 31. I spent some of that money, and I'm going to have to recoup it going forward on the last three quarters, which means very hard cash management and definitely lay-offs.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
That's what I have laid before you and Parliament through the supplementary process.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
You said it takes you twice as much to hire a private consultant on a contract basis. What is the payback period if you have full-time employees hired instead of those contract employees?
June 3rd, 2009 / 5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
A contractor in ATI costs us about $100,000 a year. I can hire a PM-2 and grade them up to PM-5 over a period of years, keep the expertise in-house, and develop the specialty in-house. It's hard to say the difference between one and the other, because the contract is very finite. I may have an employee who I recruit at PM-2 and keep him over three years before he reaches the cost of a contract.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Mr. Commissioner, there was an undertaking for Mr. Dechert. Were you going to handle that in writing?
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Mr. Dechert had asked me, on behalf of the committee I assume, to look into other models, including the B.C. one where cost recovery for commercial requesters was in place. We looked into that, and we certainly can provide that to you in writing, unless you want me to comment now.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I don't recall whether the undertaking was to be in writing to Mr. Dechert to be shared with us, or to the clerk.
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I'm in your hands as to where you would like me to direct it.
5:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes, I can very quickly.
The question was whether I knew of a system whereby an ATI request was processed at full cost recovery when the requester was a commercial organization. I said at the time that I didn't know of one, but Mr. Dechert was quite correct in saying B.C. has that model.
We looked into it. The B.C. model in fact has a provision for cost recovery. I've spoken with the commissioner there. I can certainly say that while in principle I'm against fees, a system in which cost recovery for a commercial organization would be developed--with the right to complain to the commissioner, the right of the commissioner to review, some of the administrative order-making powers that I recommended to the committee, and the discretion to investigate or not to investigate--could be made to work federally. The trick is in the definition of what a commercial enterprise is. The media is a for-profit industry, so it would clearly have to be excluded, I believe, and I certainly would argue. There are issues--as I said, I think, in my testimony--for which you might be able to get around it. But in B.C. it does work, and it's not a big issue.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Okay, why don't we leave it at that? I'll refer this information to Mr. Dechert, and if he would like further details, he should be in contact with you directly.
Thank you kindly. You are excused.
We have to go in camera for just about three minutes, so we will suspend. All those who are not supposed to be in the room for in camera, please leave as quickly as you can.
[Proceedings continue in camera]