Information & Ethics Committee on June 17th, 2010

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair. I think we've finally gotten to the point that we should have been at earlier, in my opinion. But it's clear that the three folks who we wanted to hear from, Mr. Togneri, Ms. Andrews, and Mr. Soudas, are refusing to appear before the committee despite being invited and despite being summoned. I believe it is important to proceed to report that issue to the House.

In that light, I'd like to propose a motion dealing specifically with Mr. Togneri. We have the wording that was distributed by you and by the clerk earlier, at an earlier meeting, and I'm following that wording in the suggested report. I'm just following on that document that was provided. Specifically, I'd like to move:

That the Committee report the following to the House. On Thursday, April 1, the Committee agreed, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vi) and the motion adopted by the Committee on the same day, to undertake a study on allegations of interference in access to information requests.

In the course of this study, the Committee chose to invite Sébastien Togneri to appear before it. Here are the facts...

We can take out that sentence about “these witnesses refused to appear before the committee”. So it reads, “Here are the facts...”. So the paragraph about Mr. Togneri—

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

On a point of clarification, Mr. Chair, I need a copy of the paper, if we have it, please. Do we have a copy? I don't have my original motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

It was circulated and Mr. Siksay is reading it into the record.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I can't find it. Never mind--I have it. Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Carry on, please.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

To the paragraph about Mr. Togneri, I would suggest adding the following paragraph: “On May 25, 2010, the Leader of the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Siksay, if you're going to add something to that, unless you have it written out for us...

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

I do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Okay. That'll be helpful, because the wording is important.

This document is the full motion.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

This will pertain to the part that I'm adding. I'll make that clear when—

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Okay. And this part that you're adding is in both official languages so members will be able to link these two, the original one that was put out, and the balance, which Mr. Siksay is giving us. Okay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Chair, I would continue:

On May 25, 2010, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons made a statement regarding the attendance of ministers' employees before parliamentary committees. A copy of this statement is attached to the report.

Also:

The Committee received a letter dated May 31, 2010 from the Minister of Natural Resources, noting that he had “instructed Mr. Sébastien Togneri and Ms. Jillian Andrews that I will appear before the Committee in their place”. A copy of this letter is appended to the report.

I would continue:

In light of this matter, the Committee has reason to believe that a potential breach of privilege has occurred. Your Committee feels it is their duty to place these matters before the House at this time since a question of privilege may be involved and to give the House an opportunity to reflect on these matters.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Okay.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No, no. Excuse me. Order, please.

The original motion that was drafted by the clerks directorate, on Mr. Togneri only, was circulated to the committee. Mr. Siksay has circulated additional language that he wants to put into it.

[An hon. member]

Mr. Chair, could we have the language again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

So you have--

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Do you need 48 hours' notice?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No.

You may recall that when I first raised it with the committee, I said that here is a template, here is what other committees have done, and it was just on Mr. Togneri. It listed the dates of service, etc. To this document, which was dealing just with Mr. Togneri... And this is in fact a motion that Mr. Siksay moved initially. That was tabled, but now he's bringing that matter basically back on the floor with the addition of this part, which goes into the middle, before “therefore we've decided to do this...”.

I do know that members have the original draft of a possible motion that was circulated when Mr. Siksay moved it. He has just circulated the additional language that he would like to have in it. If the committee would like to have the whole thing read right through again, for greater certainty, we could certainly do that. How's that?

Mr. Siksay, I'm going to leave it up to you to make absolutely sure.

But you have the documents.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Sorry, Mr. Chair. Do I have what he was reading as an add-on?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

That was circulated at a prior meeting.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Is this an amendment to the original motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No. He's moving a whole new motion that happens to incorporate that one plus this additional language.

Mr. Siksay, please read the motion that you're asking the committee to consider.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair. It is:

That the Committee report the following to the House. On Thursday April 1st, the Committee agreed, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vi) and the motion adopted by the Committee on the same day, to undertake a study on allegations of interference in access to information requests.

In the course of this study, the Committee chose to invite Sébastien Togneri to appear before it. Here are the facts:

On April 12th, 2010, the Committee sent Sébastien Togneri an invitation to appear before it on May 6th, 2010. On April 28, 2010, Mr. Togneri's lawyer sent a letter to the Committee saying that Mr. Togneri will not appear before the Committee. The Committee decided to summon Sébastien Togneri to appear before it. Sébastien Togneri appeared before the committee on May 6 and May 11, 2010, meetings. However, he refused to appear at the June 3rd meeting even though he was not duly discharged.

On May 25, 2010, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons made a statement regarding the attendance of ministers' employees before parliamentary committees. A copy of this statement is attached to the report.

The Committee received a letter dated May 31, 2010 from the Minister of Natural Resources, noting that he had “instructed Mr. Sébastien Togneri and Ms. Jillian Andrews that I will appear before the committee in their place”. A copy of this letter is appended to this report.

In light of this matter, the Committee has reason to believe that a potential breach of privilege has occurred. Your Committee feels it is their duty to place these matters before the House at this time since a question of privilege may be involved and to give the House an opportunity to reflect on these matters.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Siksay, I have followed it through. It fits with the documents you provided to the committee.

Mrs. Davidson.