Information & Ethics Committee on April 1st, 2010

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

I would just like to say one thing, Mr. Chair. I have given you a comprehensive list of suggested witnesses, along with their accomplishments, their responsibilities and the role they played in bringing about change. You already have some information about each of these individuals and groups that I have suggested we hear from.

A considerable amount of work has already been done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes, I have no doubt that we will achieve significant efficiencies by calling on the experience and expertise of those who've already been down the path. I know the researchers are available. We don't want to reinvent the wheel.

There's a lot of information out there. We're going to try to build on our knowledge base. When we meet with people, whether they'll be our American counterparts or from B.C., New Zealand, or wherever, we'll then be in a position to ask the very best questions to be able to have those communications.

In my history, I must admit that I've been involved in committees where they have dealt with other jurisdictions and we looked like amateurs compared to them. I don't want that to happen. I want us to be knowledgeable before we have those conversations in order to make it worthwhile.

Mr. Rickford.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I could not agree with you more. I think preparation is the key to identifying what can actually be delivered as soon as possible. We are going on a little expedition here to narrow the field, if you will. But importantly, as a whole, we need to be in the best position possible, with some parameters.

Having said that, I think part of the journey in getting there is not to review reports from groups and provinces that have been down this path before. There are some mentioned in this report.

I want to go back to your idea about sending a member or two to Toronto. Might I propose this? I think it would be strategic in capacity building for the committee to consider sending one member of the government and one of the opposition, from the other side of the table, and perhaps an analyst. A smaller group could attend the conference. It meets the demands and challenges that are of course relevant to our affairs in the chamber. It may in fact benefit us as we get the knowledge base that you were talking about. It's out there for your consideration.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Is this something that members would like to do? The House is sitting that week. It's a Monday and a Tuesday.

In the absence of members, I would simply offer it to our researchers, if there is any interest in having one or both of you attend, if you wish, as part of the research process. If any members are interested in going, we could probably accommodate them. I suspect there are not going to be many, but let's bring it forward.

To do that, Mr. Clerk, we would have to authorize it.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Jacques Maziade]

To authorize it we need a budget, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We need a budget, and we can't do that right now; the time is gone.

Let's put it this way. Mr. Rickford has proposed a motion that we make the necessary arrangements for researchers and members who can to attend the April 26 to 27 conference in Toronto, and that the appropriate budget requirements and other necessary steps be put in place to facilitate that.

Is that acceptable to the committee?

Madame Freeman.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

I didn't catch that. You said that a conference was scheduled to be held in Toronto on April 26 and 27. Did you suggest that three members of the committee attend? What exactly did you suggest?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No. It's if there are members who would like to attend--just any members. I sense we're not going to have many members, but there may be one or two who want to go. I don't think it matters what party. What matters is it's always important for members to be able to participate, if possible, at these kinds of things and to bring back that information and the handouts or the presentations, etc.

It's a very formal conference and there will be an awful lot of information. For anybody who would be attending, we certainly would expect them to report back to this committee.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Is there a registration fee, etc.?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes, it's about $400 per person for the two days.

Bill.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Chair, I can't remember what's on our work plan for that Tuesday meeting on April 27. The more we talk about it, it strikes me that maybe it's a committee trip to the conference instead of what's on the agenda that day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We don't think we have anything.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

It sounds like they're gathering experts in the area. It might be a good “Proactive Disclosure 101” meeting for us all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

On the 27th we have the Privacy Commissioner coming on main estimates and camera surveillance.

But it doesn't mean that a member can't have a substitute come to the committee for that, if they feel it's important for them to be there. I think the opportunity for members who want to really dig into this should be available.

Madame Freeman.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Unless I'm mistaken, Mr. Szabo, a number of experts will be meeting in Toronto on April 26 and 27 to discuss proactive disclosure. Is that correct?

We will be here in Ottawa to hear testimony from the Privacy Commissioner while experts will be discussing this issue. Perhaps we will be looking at the same issues and I do not believe that the committee, given its mandate, can simply take it upon itself to send one or two members to report back on the conference.

I propose that all committee members attend the conference. As I see it, this meeting is relevant to the work that we are doing in the area of proactive disclosure. The information is there. Why sit for hours and hours just to listen to one witness while we could hear from these experts who have already gathered for the conference?

Besides, collecting information and hearing from pertinent witnesses on the issue of proactive disclosure is part of our mandate and mission. Therefore, I propose that all committee members attend this conference.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We already have a motion on the floor, but that's okay. I hear you.

Mr. Rickford.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just have a technical point here. I actually had put my hand up some time ago and I think I was in the queue long before other people, even though their contributions were excellent. I would just encourage some interaction with the clerk to note that.

That said, the idea of just a couple of members going I think is still a great idea you had. But given the way that certainly our whip works, in the circumstances and the potential for votes, one person from the government side would have to be matched from the opposition as a matter of course. I think that's a given.

I certainly share Mr. Siksay's thoughts that we may be looking at a “Proactive Disclosure 101” opportunity here. I like that, Bill.

That's what I'd like to say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I'm looking at the agenda of this. It is provincially based. This whole conference has to do with managing information in the public sector. This is not exclusively proactive disclosure, but certainly the principles they're going to be talking about are quite relevant.

I took from your comments and I accept as a motion that we should have somebody go simply to help us get a sense of the velocity of work that's going on, the areas of interest, and the experts. We may even find potential witnesses for us there. A couple of days sitting at a conference is not going to give you everything, but, boy, it sure does open up some channels that might be beneficial down the road.

I certainly would like to see somebody, at least one person from the Library of Parliament, our research staff, attend. As I said, in my view, if it could be accommodated with the pairing, I don't think the committee would have much difficulty authorizing those members to attend. I want to leave it as a global opportunity that can be picked up. We do have some paperwork and so on that we have to do.

Ms. Davidson, Mr. Easter, and Mr. Siksay.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

We're still on the same topic?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I was just going to question the agenda. You said you were just looking at it. There are a full two days on proactive disclosure, are there? Or is it--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

It starts Monday, April 26. The first session is at 8:40 a.m. It deals with the Office of the Chief Information and Privacy Officer of Ontario, who will be making a brief presentation. Implementing electronic report management systems is the next session.

There's networking. They have breakout sessions. “Making it possible for citizens to find it”, is the subject matter. Then there is the future of information and digital media. That's another session. Metadata and data quality—I'm not sure if I can properly explain to you what that is. There are sessions on retention of job knowledge, record scheduling--and that's all in one morning. That's the first morning.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

It sounds like a pretty jam-packed conference.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

There is quite a bit going on. I'm not going to go through the rest of it.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

No, that's fine.