Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 4th, 2013

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

I now give the floor to Ms. Borg, for five minutes.

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

First of all, I want to thank Mr. Greene and Mr. Levine for being with us today.

You testimony really highlighted some important points. I only have one question, because I am going to yield the rest of my speaking time to my colleague Mr. Angus.

Mr. Levine, my question is addressed to you.

One of your recommendations is to allow the public to file complaints. As we know, complaints are sometimes very partisan, given that we are the only ones allowed to file them.

Can you give us further details on the advantages of putting such a system in place?

[Gregory J. Levine]

Thanks.

I don't recall saying that explicitly, but it's an idea I very much like, so if I did, I heartily endorse it.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I saw that during my research.

[Gregory J. Levine]

I do think it is important for the public to have a means of seeking redress about the behaviour of public office holders. I don't know why it wouldn't be. The public has the greatest interest in what our representatives do and what our public service does. I can't think of a good reason why the public ought not to be able to. I do understand that people will talk about vexatious complaints and trivial and frivolous complaints. I think you can create a mechanism to deal with those.

I don't want to take all of your time, but I act as an integrity commissioner for three municipalities in Ontario. I have had a number of complaints that I thought were trivial, or they weren't on point, or they weren't within jurisdiction. I just dismissed them. It's really not that hard to do that.

[Charmaine Borg, NDP, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Levine, I think that was a very interesting way for us to end. I think it's a very interesting discussion.

Thank you, Mr. Greene as well.

With my time left, I would like to move my motion:

That the Committee invite Minister Diane Finley to appear before the Committee before March 7, 2013, to explain how the privacy breach at HRSDC affecting 583,000 Canadians occurred, what actions have been taken since to ensure security of personal data throughout the Department, and what long term solutions for affected Canadians will be put in place to protect their identity.

I believe you will find that the motion is in order, so I would now like to speak to it.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

In fact, there are witnesses here and some more time has been set aside for later. I don't know how you wish to proceed, but if I have your consent, I am going to suggest that we continue the meeting and that this motion be debated once the witnesses have withdrawn, as was originally planned.

Do I have your consent on that?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I just talked to your clerk who told me that Ms. Borg was the last witness. My understanding was that if she was the last witness, it was time for us to move on to business.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

In fact, Mr. Dreeshen still has five minutes of speaking time left. However, if you give me your consent, we could close this question period with Mr. Dreeshen and proceed according to the agenda following that.

You have priority, since you have just introduced your motion. However, I remind you that there are witnesses present and that the discussion may last a few minutes.

Do you agree to proceeding with our hearing as planned?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Very well, we do not have unanimous consent. We are going to have to debate the motion.

Mrs. Davidson, you have the floor.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I move that we go in camera to discuss committee business.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I had the floor. I said that I still have the floor, and I'd like to speak to it.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

I can let you continue, but the next person on my list is Mrs. Davidson.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Just to be fair, I had clearly said I had the floor.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Go ahead then.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you. This doesn't need a long, drawn-out discussion, because all of us, regardless of our political stripe, recognize the seriousness of what happened at HRSDC. It was not just one breach but two breaches of personal data.

Having come through our committee study on the implications of losing personal data, our committee is probably in a better position than any other committee to understand the implications of losing financial and personal information on 583,000 Canadians, which is actually one in 60. We need to look at this because of the failures to protect the public interests, which happened here when it was realized that the data was missing in November and no steps were taken at that time to contact citizens whose data could have been breached.

There was a two-month lag. If this had been in the hands of hackers or fraudsters, Canadian citizens from across the country would have been subjected to unimaginable fraud. There were two months during which nothing was done. The citizens I have spoken to—and I'm sure that each of us has had citizens in our ridings calling us—are very concerned.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Mr. Angus has made a point of order.

Yes, Mr. Mayes?

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I think it's totally disrespectful to the witnesses who are before us to start on a new part of our business unless we have formally finished the first section of our business, which is to talk to these witnesses who have been so gracious to come here to give us information on the topic we're studying.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

He gave me the floor.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Why has the chair...?

Mr. Angus does not run this meeting, you run the meeting. You determine the order of business, not Mr. Angus.