Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 20th, 2011

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Patricia Davidson]

Mr. Dreeshen, your time is up.

We'll go now to Ms. Brosseau, for five minutes, please.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much.

On Tuesday, the committee heard from Konrad von Finckenstein about the CRTC's refusal to release a simple information request on how large broadcasting distribution undertakings use LPIF money.

It is quite surprising to hear that private broadcasters, including Quebecor, have blocked the public's right to see their data. Both CBC/Radio-Canada and Rogers honoured the requests, but not Quebecor.

Will you tell the committee how much money Quebecor received for each of its stations and how that money was used?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

I was not aware of that information.

I was not aware of this information, but certainly there is no doubt that we would rule from what the CRTC asks; there is no doubt about this. And I guess that you know we are probably in the process of doing so.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Since 2007, CBC/Radio-Canada has had to answer to the information commissioner. They have received numerous requests, and it has been quite difficult for them. They are now before the courts to have the rules under section 68.1 clarified.

The minister and other department officials have also disagreed with the information commissioner more than 198 times. They, too, want clarification on the act.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Patricia Davidson]

Ms. Brosseau, the bells have started to ring. I'm going to have to interrupt you.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Point of order.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I would ask that you seek the will of the committee. It is a half-hour bell, Madam Chairman. We're only two minutes from the chamber. I'd like to see that the committee sits its full time.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Patricia Davidson]

Is that the will of the committee?

Go ahead, Ms. Brosseau. We stopped your time.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Péladeau, you are quite concerned with CBC/Radio-Canada's transparency and accountability requirements under the act.

Have you submitted other information requests to other government departments or institutions?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

Absolutely. We've been sending requests to all public corporations. This is what the media business is all about, and we will continue to do so. We have a duty to inform Canadians about this.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Is CBC/Radio-Canada at the top of your list?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

Since they have not been under the Access to Information Act, Radio-Canada and CBC certainly have been seeing a lot of requests because they've been underaccountable for so long. Therefore they should not be surprised.

The fact that they were not prepared we found surprising. There is no such thing as missing or not having enough economic means to be respectful to Canadians. This piece of legislation was announced, and therefore Radio-Canada spending zillions of dollars should be in a position to answer.

So there's no such thing as surprising. It spent hundreds of thousands of dollars having parties in Toronto during the Toronto International Film Festival. They should dedicate this money to the Canadian people to be able to be accountable for the money they're spending.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Do I have more time?

I am going to give the rest of my time to my colleague Mr. Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

My questions are for Mr. Péladeau. Thank you for meeting with us today.

I get the feeling that there is a double standard when it comes to CBC/Radio-Canada and you. You receive a significant amount of public money, especially through Quebecor in Quebec.

Do you think it would be right for CBC/Radio-Canada and the public to also have access to how Quebecor spends the taxpayer money it receives?

Do you feel it would be fair and reasonable for both organizations, the crown corporation and the private one, to come under the act, since they both receive public money?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

As I was with your colleague, I am a bit surprised by what you are asking me. It may have to do with how you see things, but I think it is leading to some confusion. Everything is getting mixed up. The Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec is being mixed up with CBC/Radio-Canada. Parliamentary credits are being mixed up with tax credits.

We need to be rather mindful and truly honest when we're talking about public funds. Every year, CBC/Radio-Canada receives $1.1 billion or more in parliamentary appropriations. There are other considerations on top of that, tax credits, subsidies and so forth.

CBC/Radio-Canada receives nearly $100 million a year under the Canada Media Fund program. We also receive funding under that program, but we put just as much back in. Quebecor Media probably puts more in the fund than it takes out.

As far as Quebecor Media and the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec are concerned, the investment fund is a 45% shareholder in Quebecor Media. So whenever it sells its shares, the fund will get back the money it invested and more. Our relationship with the fund goes back 20 years, and that relationship has always been extremely profitable for the fund. I am confident that will continue in the future.

So, as a Quebecker, you need not worry about Quebecor Media's ability to grow the savings of our fellow Quebeckers.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Patricia Davidson]

Thank you.

Mr. Del Mastro, please.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chairman.

We've certainly had a healthy discussion here today. I think what we've seen on the opposition side is, as I said earlier, an attempted portrayal of equivalence between private companies and public companies. You just indicated that through your other companies you contribute more to the Canada Media Fund than what you receive.

If we're going to start putting all these things into the basket, then we have to acknowledge that the CBC receives much more than just $1.16 billion, because of course it also gets money from LPIF, the local programming improvement fund, CMF, and otherwise.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Patricia Davidson]

Mr. Del Mastro, could you wrap up? Your time has expired.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Yes, I will.

In regard to yesterday's release the CBC put out, my own feeling is that it was a bit of an abuse of its position as the public broadcaster to indicate what it indicated without actually breaking it out. Do you feel the same way? Was it kind of firing a shot across the bow of anybody else who might question how it is spending taxpayers' money?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

Yes. What I've been seeing, and again I didn't really have the time to completely think about all this.... I was astonished by the abuse that it has been running on false and malicious information. I've never seen this. Again, we will need to find out what would be the follow-up we will give to this.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Patricia Davidson]

Thank you very much, Monsieur Péladeau, Monsieur Lavoie, and Mr. Sasseville. We appreciate your appearing before the committee this morning.

This meeting is adjourned.