Evidence of meeting #26 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rights.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Daniel Therrien  Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
James Dorey  Executive Director, Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre
Kevin Scott  President, Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre
Tamir Israel  Staff Lawyer, Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Mr. Chair, this is unbelievable. We have less than an hour to ask Mr. Therrien questions. In the past, we have had at least two hours at our disposal, and we could hear from witnesses. We are far from that today. However, Mr. Therrien is probably the person who will change or renew statutes on privacy for future generations. In that context, this situation is totally unacceptable.

The official opposition wanted to do its work. We knew that the Conservatives would get what they wanted, but we still wanted to do our work thoroughly and hold at least four meetings to consider your nomination. We would have liked to hear experts' testimony and to learn from previous commissioners about the major challenges attached to the renewal of this country's privacy legislation.

However, we were denied that opportunity. After less than an hour reserved for questions, we are being pressured into approving or disapproving your candidacy. In my opinion, Canadians are the ones who lose out in such a situation. This government's track record in terms of accountability and transparency is pathetic, as evidenced by this process.

We all have the right to be a little frustrated by this state of the affairs. You are clearly not to blame, Mr. Therrien. In a way, I sympathize with you, as you are forced to participate in a sham appointment process. Nothing like this has probably been seen in Canadian history. In my opinion, my colleague Mr. Cotler did a good job of pointing this out. As parliamentarians, we must be thorough and do our job.

It is clear that my government colleagues don't feel like putting in the work and are making a mockery of the process that should be followed for such an important appointment.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON

Maybe next time you won't reject a candidate before you have a chance to hear from him. Maybe you'll take the process seriously then.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Mr. Rankin, were you seeking the floor?

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

No, sir.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Are there any other speakers on the motion from Mr. Calandra?

(Motion agreed to)

Just to summarize then, the committee or I, on behalf of the committee, will report to the House that the committee has approved the nomination of Mr. Daniel Therrien as the next Privacy Commissioner of Canada. If there are any minority opinions to attach to the report, please make them known, I would say, within 24 hours.

Can we have a motion to that effect?

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Mr. Chair, I assume that the motion will need to be translated.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

The motion is in both official languages.

All right. That being said, we're going to release the witness.

Mr. Therrien, thank you very much for appearing today. Congratulations. You're officially released.

12:10 p.m.

Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual

12:10 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

We'll suspend the meeting briefly while we release Mr. Therrien and bring on the next panel.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll reconvene our meeting. I hope people have had time to load a plate, and we'll have a working lunch.

We're going to welcome our witnesses for the ongoing study of identity theft and its economic impact.

Today we will be welcoming Mr. Tamir Israel, staff lawyer for the Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic. Mr. Israel will be here shortly, and we appreciate his being in attendance.

From the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre we have Mr. James Dorey, the executive director, and Mr. Kevin Scott, the president. They'll be joining us shortly, I'm sure, as well.

Perhaps just to make the best use of what little time we have, Mr. Dorey, we would ask you to begin with your opening remarks on behalf of the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre. Are you prepared to do that, sir?

12:10 p.m.

James Dorey Executive Director, Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre

I'm not prepared. Kevin will start, but he'll be here in one minute.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

I see. Well then why don't we just suspend for a moment then and we'll allow our next panel to prepare themselves?

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We'll resume our study on the growing problem of identity theft and its economic impact. We'll welcome as the first witnesses today, from the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre, Mr. James Dorey and Mr. Kevin Scott.

Mr. Scott, I understand that you, as the president of the association, will be making the opening remarks.

12:10 p.m.

Kevin Scott President, Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, committee, for the invitation to testify today.

I've been working on identity theft for over 10 years now, and it's been a long hard trod to get individuals to pay attention to the severity of the issue across the country. I applaud this committee for taking this on and putting this study together. I think it's very timely and very important for the Canadian public, so I want to say thank you.

My name is Kevin Scott, and I have worked on identity theft, in a variety of different forms, over the past 10 years. I'm the president and founder of the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre.

With me today is Jim Dorey. He's the executive director of the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre. He's basically responsible for the day-to-day actions and responsibilities of the centre. Jim will be jumping in during the presentation and going a little more in depth on what we do on a day-to-day basis.

I think it's important, first, for me to give a bit of background of who we are and where we came from, so the committee has an understanding of our mission and our goals.

We put together a study, back in 2004, which examined the federal privacy law and identity theft, how the two related, and how federal law could help stem some of the identity theft in Canada. That was a report that was funded by the Privacy Commissioner of Canada's office, and it was done by the BC Freedom of Information and Privacy Association. We then moved forward and decided that we needed to get more attention to the issues, so we used the report to develop a conference, in 2008. This conference was held in Vancouver, British Columbia. We had over 200 experts from across the country: private sector, law enforcement, and government. It was an extremely successful conference.

We looked at three different streams in that conference. The first stream was law enforcement and law; the second stream was technology and identity theft, and the third was victims. The first two streams had very clear outcomes and had organizations and individuals who were ready to take them on and move forward with them. The findings from the conference on victims was a very different story because there was nobody working on support in Canada for victims of identity theft.

We were quite shocked to find this out. We kind of knew it when we went in, but it was very much reinforced as we heard from individuals across the country. We went to the Department of Justice and told them of the issue, the situation, and they were able to give us a small grant of about $70,000 to do a feasibility study to start putting together a support centre for victims.

We did that over an eight-month period, and then came back and said, “This is very necessary. There's opportunity, and there's several different private sector government agencies who would be very supportive of this”. So we moved forward and began putting together the centre, putting together our materials, our legal backgrounds, and also developing a very close working relationship with the Identity Theft Resource Center, in San Diego, which has been running for 20 years. This is a very impressive organization. It has looked at identity theft on the victim's side and said that in a more severe case of identity theft, it can take up to 400 hours for an individual to regain control of their identity. The emotional impact of that is mind boggling—I'll just say that.

That relationship was developed. We put together all of our materials, working very closely with Pippa Lawson, who I know was at the committee about a month ago. She helped take the U.S. system and Candianize it, and basically we were able to put together all of the materials that we required to move forward.

The centre was then launched, in June 2012. That was here in Ottawa, and also in Vancouver. It was a very successful launch. The Privacy Commissioner of Canada was our keynote speaker for that, and she was very eloquent and was able to bring a lot of attention to the issues. We were on the front page of almost every newspaper in Canada.

Now, I've taken the time on my plane ride here to read the testimony of everybody who has appeared in front of the committee, and I have to say that the work that individuals are doing to reduce and try to modify systems within their organizations, their ministries, is every important. But the one thing that I don't see in the record thus far is the victim's side. That's what Jim Dorey and I hope to bring to you today, talking about those victims and what they're going through and what type of support they need.

As I alluded to a moment ago, when an individual is a victim of identity theft, their life becomes a spiral of confusion. They don't know where to turn, they don't know what to do, and they don't know how to get out of the maze—I think is the best way to put it. There are 15 to 20 different agencies, organizations, banks, and so on that an individual needs to speak with to start getting the issue under control. Each one of these different agencies requires a different form, a different explanation, and a different type of format to explain the issue.

Now, when an individual is going through the emotional impact of identity theft, trying to sort through all of these different forms and requirements, they just get to a point of complete overload. So with that 400 hours of confusion, the U.S. organization has been able to streamline their process down to 15 to 20 hours with a very systematic tool kit of forms, scripts, and so on to basically get the individual out of this quagmire.

I think it's probably best to throw it over to Jim Dorey, who can talk to you about what that process is, how we've made it Canadian, and how he deals with these individuals on a day-to-day basis.

12:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre

James Dorey

Thank you, Kevin.

Hi. I'm Jim Dorey. I'm the executive director of the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre.

There are three main streams that the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre is currently working on. One is victim support. That's the key one that we're speaking to. The second one is education and prevention, which we've heard a lot about. The third one is research and data collection.

In terms of victim support, the core resources that we've developed over the last three years are fact sheets to help people; scripts, so they can actually call separate companies with set scripts and just insert their name to streamline the process; different forms; sample letters; contact lists; a workbook; and a standardized affidavit form created by Pippa Lawson directly for us but now used at law agencies across Canada. The thing that we are most proud of is our “Victim Toolkit”. The victim tool kit has all these forms in the one booklet and can actually take someone from beginning to end in order for them to regain their identity.

All these resources are found online on our website. That's good for some people. Some people are very adept and can just jump on the website and follow the forms, and it helps them. Most people need someone to talk to, as Kevin was saying, as they are trying to unravel this puzzle. What we've set up is a 1-800 number with a call centre, and people are able to call the call centre and actually get a human, caring voice on the other end of the line.

When someone does call the 1-800 number, they're most likely to be frustrated, confused, and very overwhelmed. That's why we need people who are knowledgeable and able to streamline this process quickly for them. All of the people who we work with or who answer calls have been trained either by me, who was trained down in San Diego by the Identity Theft Resource Center there, the group that's been doing this for 20 years....

What we do is to talk them down. They're always very excited and frustrated. Once the individual is in a little bit more of a calm state, we get into our five-step process to help determine this, and we present them with materials, resources, and support to help them regain their identity. In more severe cases, we've also been able to go out and establish different partnerships across Canada. One partnership would be with a group like Equifax. We've met the vice-president there and he's given me their direct line, so in deeper cases where we're having trouble with a client who is trying to figure out some of their credit rating information, I can just make a direct call to the VP and he'll get the information to us.

Of course, we don't just focus on victim support. Because identity theft is a billion-dollar-plus expense to Canadians, the second core aspect of our mission is to assist Canadians in reducing and preventing the risk of identity theft. To help Canadians reduce and prevent identity theft, we've created four different manuals: one for youth, one for seniors, one for the general public, and one specifically geared to online situations. They're in-depth manuals and are all found on the website. I won't go into detail, because I know we're a little short on time today.

We've also created a mobile education unit. This mobile education unit is used at public events, special engagements, and conferences.

Finally, we're currently developing a new education and outreach program. This is very interesting. This is currently focused on two specifically targeted demographics in Canada that are being affected increasingly by the bad effects of identity theft. The first program is going to be an outreach program directed towards youth. The second one is going to be an outreach program directed towards seniors.

With the rise of technology and social media, youth today are very comfortable handing over their personal information on sites like Instagram, Facebook, etc., so more education is needed to help our youth here understand the importance of holding their information a little bit tighter.

For our seniors program, we are currently developing it in partnership with CARP and the director of community development there, Anthony Quinn. It is also important, if not as important as the youth program. Seniors across Canada, some who are savvy with regard to technology and some who are not as savvy, are being hit directly with a number of scams in this day and age, and this is only going to grow.

The third core stream of the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre is its work with research and data collection. At this point, I'm going to turn it back to Kevin to finish this up.

Thank you very much.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

I'm just going to interrupt you briefly.

Normally when the lights are flashing and the bells are ringing, we're being summoned to a vote, but I understand that these are half-hour bells. I think with the agreement of committee members, because we're so close to the House, we could go for 15 minutes and leave 15 minutes to get to our vote. That will give time for both of our witnesses to at least enter their presentations into the record.

Is there agreement?

12:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Very good.

We'll continue for fifteen minutes.

Mr. Scott, usually opening remarks are five to ten minutes and you're well over that now, and we want to leave time for Mr. Israel to do the same.

12:30 p.m.

President, Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre

Kevin Scott

If I could just make some closing remarks, that would be great.

This committee has the opportunity to really affect long-term identity theft in Canada, and I really hope that the study that comes out will make certain recommendations that will see that on-the-ground transformation.

I'll make one observation, three recommendations, and I'll conclude.

The first observation is that identity theft is happening right now in Canada. Over 100,000 people are dealing with this issue as we speak right now, and they need support. We're going to be able to reduce identity theft if many of the measures that the different agencies are working on are put into effect. But right now there are individuals who are suffering. That is basically what we are here to do.

So I'm hoping that all of you will make recommendations that will include increased victim support from government and the private sector, increased education and outreach, and also the development of a national index of what's going on with identity theft. I think those are three critical areas that this committee could recommend.

Thank you very much, and thank you very much for taking this very important issue on.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Thank you very much, Mr. Scott and Mr. Dorey. We'll certainly benefit from the recommendations and the work you've done to date on this file, and we appreciate your coming all the way from British Columbia to share your presentation with us.

Next, we'll invite Mr. Tamir Israel, please, to make his presentation and opening remarks.

Mr. Israel, for five to ten minutes please.

June 3rd, 2014 / 12:30 p.m.

Tamir Israel Staff Lawyer, Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

Good afternoon. My name is Tamir Israel, and I'm staff lawyer with the Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic. CIPPIC is very grateful for this opportunity to provide our input into this important study on the growing problem of identity theft and its economic impact. I'll cut my comments a bit short, given the time constraint, so that if there are questions, there will be a bit of time for them.

In many ways identity crime is the crime of the information age. The U.S. Federal Trade Commission's Consumer Sentinel Network collated and classified over two million consumer complaints in 2013, and identity theft complaints comprised the top category across all these. Identity theft is a vehicle for a range of identity crimes. The false identities built on this theft are used to procure loans, government benefits, and fake credit cards. These false identities are also used as a jumping off point for other crimes. As a result, the economic and social costs of identity crime remain difficult to measure.

In spite of these difficulties, it is safe to say that identity theft is on the rise. Identity theft 2.0 is taking hold, where identity thieves take full advantage of the rich information stores available on social media and mobile devices with increasingly savvy methods. Illegal online markets for identities have developed where e-mail account access, credit card numbers, and full identity profiles can be bought and sold en masse. The OECD estimates that lists of valid e-mail addresses can be purchased at between $1.70 U.S. to $15 U.S. per megabyte, and that access to compromised e-mail accounts ranges from $1 U.S. to $ 20 U.S.— or it did in 2009—depending on the black market fluctuations. Putting aside the economic costs, however, the most insidious impact of identity crime is on the individual who's the victim of identity crime. The time, effort, and trauma involved with recovering from identity crime cannot be easily measured in economic terms.

In the remainder of my comments I'll address three essential and necessary components of any comprehensive response to the problem of identity theft. They are prevention, research and education, and victim support. Before turning to these I wish to speak briefly about another essential component, which is investigation and enforcement.

We've done a lot in Canada to improve the ability of our various agencies, including the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, the Competition Bureau, and our various law enforcement agencies, to investigate identity crimes as well as to address many of the underlying offences that facilitate these types of offences. That being said, these initiatives include the addition of several Criminal Code provisions and the passing of S.C. 2010, c. 213, which is Canada's anti-spam and spyware legislation. These steps have been critical, but it's important to recognize that identity theft is here to stay, and an enforcement solution alone will not be enough to address the problem. With that, I turn to some of the other solutions that are necessary to supplement what we've done in Canada.

First and foremost, more needs to be done to help individuals protect their identity information so that it doesn't end up in the hands of identity thieves in the first place. The most effective way to do this is through stronger data protection frameworks, including a stronger PIPEDA and Privacy Act.

PIPEDA in particular needs to play a central role in any comprehensive response to identity crime. Today's social networks and mobile devices are a repository of information, but this information is often disclosed in unexpected ways, be it to the general public or to invisible third-party applications. PIPEDA also obligates organizations to put in place reasonable technical and other safeguards in order to prevent unauthorized access to customer data. Security breaches are not only becoming more frequent with each passing year, but the number of identities exposed with each breach is increasing dramatically. Symantec's “2014 Internet Security Threat Report” registered a 260% annual increase in the number of identities exposed by each average breach, meaning that these are essentially cyber-breaches targeting large repositories of data in one go. This makes the adoption of strong technical safeguards a very important tool in the prevention of identity theft.

Against this backdrop the need for a PIPEDA framework that is rigorously enforced and applied has never been greater; however, the current framework does not reflect this. As this committee recognized in its recent study, “Privacy and Social Media in the Age of Big Data”, quoting former Privacy Commissioner of Canada Jennifer Stoddart, with the emergence of Internet giants, the balance intended by the spirit and letter of PIPEDA is at risk, and the risk of significant breaches and of unexpected, unwanted, and even intrusive use of people's information calls for commensurate safeguards and financial consequences not currently provided for in PIPEDA.

Bill S-4, currently before the Senate, takes an incremental step towards making PIPEDA somewhat more enforceable by providing for optional consent orders. However, full enforcement powers and administrative monetary penalties for non-compliance are required, so that companies have effective incentives to comply proactively with PIPEDA's obligations. Bill S-4 will also enact far overdue breach notification obligations. These will obligate companies to report any privacy breaches that raise a real risk of substantial harm to affected individuals and to the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. A company that fails to disclose will be guilty of an offence and subject, upon summary conviction, to a fine of up to $10,000. While the breach notification obligation in Bill S-4 is a positive step forward, it is not sufficiently calibrated to deter security breaches. It focuses too closely on the risk of direct harm to an end-user resulting from a specific breach. In reality, in many instances it will be difficult to know whether a particular vulnerability was or was not exploited, meaning that much laxity in technical safeguards will remain unreported. This makes it an ineffective mechanism for encouraging and incentivizing companies to strengthen up their technical safeguards.

Recently a number of government departments have also seen high-profile breaches. These have included, for example, a breach over at HRSDC involving a hard drive that contained sensitive information for over 500,000 students who had applied for student loans. In spite of this, the Privacy Act lacks not only a breach notification obligation but also the basic obligation to adopt technical safeguards.

I'll turn now to research and education. In addition to prevention, a comprehensive response to the problem of identity theft requires education and outreach initiatives. A number of government agencies have developed some solid identity crime-specific consumer education materials. The Competition Bureau's “Little Black Book of Scams” is a good example. It's available online if anybody wants to take a look. These are supplemented by growing efforts by non-governmental bodies such as the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre, whose Victim Toolkit is an excellent resource, as is some of their other stuff, which they've already talked about. But more can be done, particularly with respect to education on the victim recovery process.

There is also a need for coordinated and sustained research on the scope and parameters of identity crime. There has been minimal systematic research on this within Canada since about 2006. While there are some non-Canadian initiatives that provide some insight into the scope and parameters of the problem within Canada, there is a need to stimulate and coordinate more Canada-specific research on identity crime through an initiative such as the breach repository that Kevin was talking about.

Finally, I turn to victim support, and I'll make this brief, because my colleagues here did an excellent job of outlining many of the elements that are necessary for an effective victim support framework. Many of my comments overlap with theirs, so I'll just make this brief.

The recovery process for an identity crime is highly complex. Victims must deal with creditors who are reluctant to believe their debt is not theirs. Even if a victim is successful in convincing immediate creditors, bad credit ratings can follow victims of identity crime for years. A number of steps can be adopted to mitigate these problems. For example, a customer seeking to convince creditors she is a victim of identity crime will often need to undergo completely diverse and complex processes for each provider in order to prove her identity. Often these will require different documentation, and this greatly multiplies the hours it takes to recover one's identity. In this vein, the type of standardized documentation provided by entities like the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre is really crucial. It's also crucial to make sure that it's accepted by both law enforcement and service providers as an acceptable means of providing documentation of identity theft. Other useful and necessary tools would be the availability of cost-free credit freezes and online access to credit reports, which this committee heard about earlier.

Finally, the ongoing availability of a victim support centre is essential to the overall recovery process. Having someone to talk victims through the identity recovery process and to assist them in their dealings with law enforcement and other agencies as well as with creditors is essential.

Overall, a national strategy on identity crime victim support should be adopted that will establish clear parameters for cooperation between the various entities involved in the victim support process, such as the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre, the Canadian Identity Theft Support Centre, and the various regulatory agencies that deal with identity theft matters. It should also establish a clear road map for adopting these various identity recovery mechanisms.

Thank you.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Thank you very much, Mr. Israel, for your input and your comments today. We very much appreciate the effort you've made, and we will benefit from your recommendations and remarks.

Ms. Davidson.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Mr. Chair, I wonder if we could request that the gentlemen send copies of their remarks to the clerk, so we could have them, since we don't have time to ask specific questions.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Yes, I appreciate that recommendation.

If you wouldn't mind, if your remarks haven't been translated, could you submit them to the clerk. We will translate them and circulate them to all committee members.

Unfortunately, there is no time for questions. We have to be in our chairs in the House to vote in just a few minutes. I'm sorry for the delay in hearing you, and we very much appreciate the effort you've made. We may have further questions for you; we could correspond with the clerk by e-mail or telephone.

Thank you for coming.

This meeting is adjourned.