Information & Ethics Committee on May 9th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a quick point of order.

Mr. Johnson, you indicated that your volume wasn't appropriate. Are you able to hear?

[Edward Johnson]

I think I have it now. Thank you very much.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Are you okay for translation?

[Edward Johnson]

I haven't tried it for translation.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Make sure it's on your preferred language. It's the bottom button, Mr. Johnson.

[Edward Johnson]

Right. I have it. Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you for that, Mr. Green. I spoke to the clerk about that, because I picked up on what Mr. Johnson said.

Mr. Johnson, do you speak and understand French?

[Edward Johnson]

I do my best.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I just wanted to make sure.

It's because the next speaker will be Mr. Villemure of the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for six minutes.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Johnson, thank you for being with us today.

I'm going to take another approach completely. Your testimony today is very optimistic, as was Alexandre Trudeau's. It is in stark contrast to Ms. Fournier's, which was quite pessimistic.

How do you explain the difference in perceptions?

[Edward Johnson]

I can't explain it. I'm sorry, but I can't speak for her.

For my part, I know what's going on at the foundation right now, and that makes me absolutely optimistic.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

All right.

What I took from Alexandre Trudeau's testimony last week was that the fault lay with Ms. Fournier and the other eight members who resigned. In short, he said it was the fault of others, not his own. What is your take on that kind of statement?

[Edward Johnson]

I must say that this is not my testimony. As I said in my introductory remarks, I had a very close and fruitful professional relationship with Ms. Fournier. I very much enjoyed the program that she instituted during her years with the foundation.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Ms. Fournier actually mentioned to us that you had a good relationship. As she said, until the end, she had a very good relationship with everyone.

[Edward Johnson]

Absolutely.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

What made everything so different in the end? There was obviously a conflict. The Globe and Mail article triggered fears. What happened after that to go from a good relationship, avowed as such, to a resignation?

[Edward Johnson]

I cannot explain her resignation. However, I can say that, as a result of the publication of this article and the allegations of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, the national attention that has been brought to our organization has created tremendous pressure on the foundation, on her, on her team, and on the board of directors. Based on all my experience at the foundation, I would say that it has been a very difficult time for our entire team.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

There was a conflict.

[Edward Johnson]

There is no particular conflict that I could point to. That said, the pressure created a very difficult atmosphere.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Ms. Fournier asked to have an audit conducted by a forensic accounting firm, I believe. She had six questions for a lawyer, according to what she related to us. So you proposed to have an ad hoc committee of three board members and outsiders to assist you, which is a good governance practice.

[Edward Johnson]

That's right. I believe that is a basic governance practice.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Then she insisted that all three members recuse themselves, right?

[Edward Johnson]

What three members are you talking about?

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I am talking about those who were to be on the audit committee.