Information & Ethics Committee on June 2nd, 2023

[Madeleine Redfern]

That's correct.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay.

Was it hard to administer all the investments? Did you have to fight on a regular basis or, on the contrary, did you have some elbow room?

[Madeleine Redfern]

I'm sorry. I missed the end of the question in my translation.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

In your capacity as chair of the investment committee, did you have a lot of freedom, or were you in a narrow corridor? Were you forced to make decisions?

[Madeleine Redfern]

No, there was always an environment where people on the committees or on the board were expected to be able to freely ask their questions to fulfill their duty to get the information.

At the same time, as Dr. Adam said, we do need to be careful about getting to the point of micromanaging. We need to be able to get the information and provide guidance, but not get to the point where the finance committee or the investment committee is dictating where those specific investments go.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I assume that Mr. Johnson, Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Sahlas and Mr. McNiven were more involved in committee decisions, were they not?

[Madeleine Redfern]

Beyond the committee, I'm not entirely sure how much more hands-on they were, but I can tell you that they were fully participating in the board meetings and the committee meetings, as were the other members.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

If Mr. Johnson tells us he wasn't aware of anything, is it reasonable to believe that, Dr. Adam?

[Dr. Dyane Adam]

What did he say he didn't know about?

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

He answered all the questions we asked him.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Villemure, you only have enough time for a brief response.

[Dr. Dyane Adam]

I can't speak to what Mr. Johnson said. You're talking about his testimony before—

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

It would be surprising if he didn't know anything about it.

[Dr. Dyane Adam]

I think he is very aware of what's happening at the foundation. He's been there for 20 years, and he's a serious man.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure and Dr. Adam.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

We have Mr. Green next, for six minutes.

Go ahead, sir.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm happy to allow Mr. Villemure to finish his line of questioning.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Villemure, did you want to ask any other questions? Mr. Green is giving you a bit of his time.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'd like to thank my colleague Matthew Green.

I have one question for the three witnesses.

Was there a culture where nothing was written down and everything was done orally?

[Dr. Dyane Adam]

I'll start.

I don't know if it's a culture. Personally, all the positions I've held have been in public organizations subject to the Access to Information Act. We were used to dealing with that. What's more, as academics, we like writing. We like to document our decisions so that they can be consulted, and we like research.

As I've told the chair of the board of directors on a number of occasions, I would sometimes have liked to have briefing notes to document the risks. Let's just say that the board was less inclined to produce such notes, except for programs and all that. For hotter issues, I would have liked to have had more complete notes on the balance of risks. It wasn't our practice to do this for hot issues. I'm not talking about programs.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

My questions won't focus on the programs, but management as such.

Is it possible that minutes have been lost or altered?

[Dr. Dyane Adam]

Unfortunately, I have no idea. As far as I know, that hasn't happened, but I can't speak for—

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Did the minutes mention the mover and the seconder, in the case of decisions that had to be made?

[Dr. Dyane Adam]

I think so.