Evidence of meeting #84 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-52.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
I ruled. This is a matter of procedure. I'm not the regular chairman and I'm not sure what the chairman had organized for tomorrow. I believe the Auditor General is already confirmed for tomorrow for an hour and a half.
This is a large bill. I'm not sure.... I wasn't notified when the list of witnesses have to be in by, but I would assume they'd be in by Friday. I have to give a bit of time for witnesses to appear, so I don't see how we can go to clause-by-clause tomorrow.
4:45 p.m.
Bloc
Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
I would like a point of clarification. Since the debate is on this bill, I do not believe that we need 48 hours' notice to make a motion. I just want to be sure of that.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
Your comment is not a point of order.
I was the one who decided that if you want to make a motion, you should do it according to the rules of the committee, that is by giving 48 hours' notice. That is my opinion.
Even if my decision were challenged, the fact remains that, given the way this committee usually operates, a request for a witness takes at least 24 hours. Tomorrow is Thursday, and I think committee members should be given until Friday to submit lists of witnesses. When we reconvene—and this is the understanding that we came to when we met to discuss our program until the end of the session—bills will have priority over other committee projects.
This is not a debate. We only have 45 minutes with the department officials. If we don't finish, we're going to have them come back tomorrow--if that's what you want me to do.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
The point of clarification is simply this. When a decision is rendered or made by the chair, and the option or your ruling is upheld--and I respect the fact that you have the right to make that ruling--do I not have the right to challenge that ruling?
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
It's not a ruling, it's a point of order.
It's not a point of order; it's a matter of procedure. What are we challenging here?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Are you taking advice from the clerk, or are you just talking?
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
It's not the first time I've done this. I can ask that the decision of the chair be sustained, but we're not going to be able to follow up with the second part. So the decision of the chair being sustained is not going to be relevant.
Those who are in accordance with the decision of the chair, raise your hands.
Those opposed to the chair.
So we have.... What's the other option?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
All I'm asking is to waive the 48-hour notice so I can have my motion on the floor. The chair made a decision, and the chair lost the challenge. He now—
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
My challenge was whether we can go tomorrow to clause-by-clause. You need unanimous consent for what, to challenge the fact that we can't go to clause-by-clause tomorrow?
The regulations of the committee still require 48-hour notice. You need unanimous consent.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
No, all I need is a majority. I don't need unanimous consent. You want unanimous consent; you don't need unanimous consent. You know the rules of procedure.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
My suggestion is that we move to the witnesses, or you put forward a motion. It's up to you, Mr. Dykstra. Right now, you don't have a point of order.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
I just moved the motion. I challenged the chair.
The chair's decision was rendered. Certainly it wasn't supported by—
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Now I've asked to waive the 48-hour notice, and I would like to move the motion that I've already read into the record.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
No, you don't. Procedurally you need a majority of the committee to agree to waive the rules.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Massimo Pacetti
I need unanimous consent for a motion to be adopted, and even if we have a motion, there is no way as chairman that I can ask for witnesses not to appear before a bill like Bill C-52.
Let's be reasonable here.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we're dedicating an hour and half to witnesses, so I'm certainly not suggesting—
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
When are members supposed to submit their list of witnesses? By what time?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
As chair, I have a responsibility to the committee to act in proper course.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative