Finance Committee on May 16th, 2007

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

It's because there's a lot in both budgets, and especially in this budget. Budget officials tell me this is the biggest budget in Canadian history. We've covered a lot of ground here.

There are also some challenging drafting issues. When you do something like the RDSP, the double-interest deduction, and the use of tax havens, sophisticated analysis and drafting are required. It doesn't mean we don't do it; it means we work hard and it takes longer to get it done. The department officials work very hard at this and accomplish the drafting objectives. The ones that were ready are in budget Bill C-52, and the others will be ready for the fall.

I'm very happy that both budget bills from the last budget became law, so the provisions of budget 2006 through those two bills have become law.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

Mrs. Yelich.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

In defence of the finance ministers, our former finance minister of Saskatchewan was an NDP. She more or less asked the Government of Saskatchewan to change its focus. She said the cap was not only necessary but also common sense, because it protected the principle that provinces paying money into equalization should not be worse off than the provinces getting the money. She said the debate should go on; it should be about focus and perception.

It is important, especially for our province, which is into science, technology, and research. They thank you a lot. I wish our premier would talk to you more about that. If he hasn't, you could perhaps make a statement about our premier and where his focus should be.

Before you answer that, I would like to quickly ask about the income tax forms, since Mr. Turner raised the issue. I can remember those two forms, and wasn't it at a time when the finance department had to all of a sudden pull back? They had all their printing done for that year at income tax time, then they had to pull the forms back and have them reprinted. Didn't it cost us some money and some time?

[A voice]

It cost a million dollars.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

This was going back to the former finance minister. When we had those two forms, weren't there some issues about printing them within about...? I am curious, because that might explain why there are two forms but no laws in place to support them. I'd be interested in knowing about that.

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Do you want to go ahead, Brian? I wasn't here then.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

Did it cost us a lot of money, plus a delay in getting the income tax forms out?

[Brian Ernewein, General Director, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

I can't speak to the cost. It would have been a matter for the Canada Revenue Agency--additional costs.

As the minister has said, when a ways and means motion is tabled the Canada Revenue Agency will generally administer the law on the basis of that motion, which would have led to changes in the forms. If they came late in the year there certainly would have been costs if any reprinting of forms, etc., was required.

When the law was passed, the forms for that year or for the following year would have to be adjusted accordingly.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Thank you, Mrs. Yelich.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

I'm wondering if I could have this delivered to the minister so he will know for sure that Canadians—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

I was just getting to that.

Mr. Turner, I prefer that you submit it to the clerk. She'll make sure the minister's office and all members get copies. I think the clerk has a copy.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

I'd like to deliver it to the minister before he leaves.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

You can perhaps hand-deliver it to him after we—

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

He can send it if he wants. I'm familiar with the form.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Okay. We weren't sure.

We'll recess for a few minutes and change witnesses.

Mr. Flaherty, thank you for coming.

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

The meeting is suspended.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

If we could start up....

Point of order?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

No. I would like to move, based on the fact that we had the minister here this afternoon and we've been dealing with Bill C-52, that we move directly to Bill C-52 for Thursday's meeting and that we dedicate an hour and a half to witnesses on Bill C-52 and then in the second half we move directly to clause-by-clause on the bill. So we spend the second hour and a half reviewing clause-by-clause.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

That's not a point of order, that's a notice of motion. If you could put your notice of motion formally, as we do all other motions, then the chairman could handle it appropriately. At this point I'm not willing to make a decision on that.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I would challenge the chair on that, and ask if we could have a vote to move my motion immediately, today.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

It's a procedure we've agreed to.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Your own Liberals challenged the chair at the other committee on exactly the same....

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

No, not on the exactly the same point. We weren't moving a motion.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Yes, they did--ethics. They did the same thing, and you overruled the Liberal chair.