Evidence of meeting #14 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was positions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
Ninety percent are vacant. Approximately 90%.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
So it's an illusion of saving money rather than a reality of saving money--
3:55 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
It's a cost avoidance. If they were to be filled, they would cost money.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
On the Canada Pension Plan, you're changing it from 400 GIC appointments to 360 GIC appointments. Presumably this is where Canadians go before a tribunal and say they're not being fairly treated or they're being disqualified from receiving their pension, and things of that nature.
In my experience as a practising member of Parliament, this is a pretty messed up system. It takes a long time to get there, people are frustrated and don't know what's going on. So you already are down on the complement by.... Well, I'm assuming that the 40 positions you're apparently eliminating are already not filled, so you're really not eliminating anything.
Are you actually then loading on to the 360 who still have their appointments the difficulties that many of us actually experience as members of Parliament?
3:55 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
But we're not actually eliminating positions or people as such. We're reducing the cap. The cap had been fixed at 400. Currently there are approximately 300 people in positions. The analysis that was done--
3:55 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
No. At the moment there are about 300 people--positions.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
3:55 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
No. There were 400, the cap was 400 and that's a maximum. Currently there are 300 positions that are filled. We are reducing the cap to bring it down to 360 to leave a marge de manoeuvre to make sure that if requirements are needed we'll have additional positions filled.
The analysis that had been done is that there is no backlog on requests and that the complement of 360 would be sufficient to meet the demands.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
So at the present time 300 people fill what was available, 400 positions. You're actually moving that down to 360 and leaving 60 vacant.
3:55 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
Yes. We're leaving it open in case there's a need to have additional members to meet the demand.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
I would be somewhat curious to see that study that says these things are being dealt with in a timely sort of way. That is not consistent with my experience, but I can't speak for other members at the table.
I'll let it go for the time being.
April 29th, 2010 / 4 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you for coming.
Just for my clarification, then, these positions exist on the books and thus from a budgetary point of view the government has to budget for these positions whether people are in them or not. Would be that correct?
4 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
The organizations have to kind of keep it in mind as a possibility. As long as they exist on the books, there is a possibility that the Governor in Council might fill the positions.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
So if the government of the day decided they wanted to fill all 400 positions overnight--
4 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
Are you talking about the 400? I thought--
4 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Well, I'm using this as an example. The organization has to have the money to pay these people for the meetings they would attend. Is that correct?
4 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
Absolutely.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Welcome.
You mentioned earlier that out of the positions being eliminated, 90% are vacant. So what is your estimate of the real savings resulting from this cut?
4 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
Excuse me, I did not hear what you said.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
At how much do you estimate the real savings from the elimination of these positions?
4 p.m.
Director, Appointments and Selection Processes, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
We did not evaluate that... It was not just a computing exercise, it was an exercise to try to evaluate the efficiency of the various boards and to ensure the best governance. If all 245 positions had been filled, we estimate that the costs — this is a very rough estimate that we did with Treasury Board — including the per diems, the honorariums, travel costs and everything associated with these boards, would be $1,000,000 to $1,250,000 for the 245 positions.
