Evidence of meeting #3 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here today to answer our questions.
My first question has to do with the connection between the Canada Revenue Agency and the Canada Border Services Agency. Why do you share a financial system?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
It's because of our parentage, in the sense that we were both born from the same organization. In the early 1990s—this will be short—we, Customs and Tax, were integrated. We spent an awful lot of time over a decade integrating our IT systems. Early in the decade, in 2003, after the terrorist attack, the decision was made that we would move Customs over to become part of Public Safety.
As I said earlier, it was somewhat easy to divide up people, but the infrastructure was extremely difficult to divide up. We had discussions with Treasury Board. We talked about what the cost might be to duplicate the system. It was a massive amount--over hundreds of millions of dollars--to break up and create a new system. It was decided at that point in time to have us provide that service for the border agency.
It's been a very successful experiment, to be honest. Originally, there may have been a few irritants, and the border agency may have felt like the boarder upstairs in the house, but I think now it feels it's an equal partner. We have a new governance regime in place. We've just signed some new MOUs with it in place. The agency's demand on our IT system has grown significantly in recent years as it has become much more automated. So at this stage we're almost 50-50 in terms of usage.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Thank you very much.
I note that the transfer to the Canada Border Services Agency is to provide funding for the financial interoperability and stewardship initiative. Can you explain that a little bit or tell me what the purpose of that initiative is?
4:10 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
That's a Treasury Board initiative that I believe was announced in the 2006 budget. They wanted to ensure that departments and agencies across the government improved the interoperability of their financial systems in the sense that when you wanted to add up numbers across departments, if every department was using uniquely tailored systems, it became much more difficult to do those aggregations. It was also very difficult when staff moved from one organization to another. It was like moving into a new world.
The second part of that was the stewardship aspect of it, to gain more control and more assurance that the financial principles that we wanted to pursue under accountability would be enabled by our systems.
What we're seeing today is more under the stewardship banner than under the interoperability banner. As my colleague indicated, you can see from those projects that our assurance we're being accountable and living within expectations will increase when these projects are finished.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
There's a minute left, or Mr. Généreux could have a round after Mr. Pacetti. He could have a full five-minute round.
March 18th, 2010 / 4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
If you don't mind, I would like to ask a question.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
First of all, I want to apologizing for being late.
Good day, gentlemen.
Could you explain what the Children's Special Allowance payments are exactly? Who is eligible to receive these payments and what is their intended purpose?
4:10 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
That payment is sort of a partner arrangement with the child tax benefit program. Under the child tax benefit program, parents get a tax credit through the tax system, so they get, effectively, a reduction in what they owe in taxes every year. For children who are under the care of an institution or in foster care, this program provides the same level of support for those children, in those circumstances, as the child tax benefit program does.
So in a sense it ensures that all children are appropriately covered.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
I know last year we had a discussion...because there was extra money required due to the budget--for example, the implementation of the taxpayers savings account. I believe the supplements at the time were almost $10 million, if not even more. That was related to getting the technology up to speed, and the software, and all the items related to that.
I'm wondering what happened with that. Was there enough money for the implementation of the taxpayers...or are we not seeing any of that in the $1.5 million or $6.3 million?
4:10 p.m.
Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
That item was indeed raised at our last appearance here. We, at the time, did not have the information. We committed to getting it back to the committee, and we did so.
Regarding the amounts in question for the tax-free savings account, I will quote the numbers for 2008-09 that were provided to the committee. For 2008-09 it was $19.3 million; for 2009-10 it was $17.9 million; for 2010-11 it was $14.6 million; and for 2011-12 it was $14.7 million. These amounts of money are indeed sufficient at this point in time to implement the tax-free savings program.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
None of those amounts are in the supplementary estimates (C) we are seeing today.
4:15 p.m.
Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
They are not. They were approved previously.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
That's right.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
In the last few budgets, we've seen a whole bunch of little gimmicks, and it has cost CRA quite a substantial amount to bring the software up to snuff, and some changes have had to be made. We just saw the budget tabled last week, and I'm wondering if CRA will have to incur any additional costs given the budget that was announced three weeks ago.
4:15 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Our officials are consulted by the Department of Finance prior to the budget, on a need-to-know basis, to determine whether initiatives are administratively feasible and that sort of thing. That doesn't allow us to--
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
I'm sorry to interrupt, but that is not what I've been told in the past. In the past I've been told that the budget gets tabled, and then CRA is told to do whatever it takes to get these gimmicks through.
4:15 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Well, in the beginning we are consulted on whether or not it is doable in the broad sense: Can I build a house on that piece of land?
4:15 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Once we're there, the question is how much that house will cost, and that is the point we're at right now. We're working with the budget now released. We're able to circulate it more broadly in the agency and get our officials to work on it to determine what's required to make it happen. Those costs are being developed now, and we will be consulting with the Department of Finance.
We have a better understanding--