Finance Committee on Oct. 19th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Chair, I did not go over my time.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Giguère.

Next, Mr. Cannan, please.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And to our witnesses, thank you.

Ms. Worsfold, I was born in Edmonton. I have the opportunity and the pleasure now of serving and representing the constituents of Kelowna--Lake Country, but I'm very familiar with Edmonton, being born there at the Royal Alexandra, a university hospital. I commend the medical professionals there and the great work that you do there and across the country--all the nurses.

I want to ask my question to your friend just about 150 miles down the road from the city of champions, in Calgary. I see he has his Flames jersey there, so I had to give him a little hard time.

I serve on the trade committee, and one of the things that government can do is not just be responsible fiscally with money, but provide economic opportunities for Canadian businesses and grow the economy. We're trying to expand our markets, as our chair has been involved with Canada-U.S. for a number of years, and myself, but we need to diversify from the U.S. We have nine trade agreements in place. We're working on 50 other countries in negotiation, 27 of those in the European Union. How would that help your members within the Calgary chamber? Are you supportive of that direction?

[Ben Brunnen]

The chamber was extremely supportive of that direction. It's a very positive step. Opening up trade markets is a key strategic move, particularly in times when we're trying to grow our economy. Particularly from a diversity perspective, I think that signing trade agreements and opening up those opportunities will be a key component towards long-term success. So international trade is of critical importance.

I would also suggest, and we certainly support, liberalizing trade within Canada. The proposed CETA agreement could create some real opportunities there. That should also be a priority. We'd like to remove barriers to trade, essentially removing regulation. And coordinating regulatory efforts across the federal government and the provinces is another key opportunity area that we can make some headway on from a business climate perspective.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Interprovincial trade barriers is another big area we're working on. I know from the wine region in B.C. that we're very supportive of working with the provinces to break down those barriers. It looks very promising. My colleague is bringing a private member's bill to the House tomorrow, so stay tuned for that.

The other element you talk about as a barrier to trade is also the red-tape aspect. My colleague Cathy McLeod has been working with Minister Bernier and they hope to bring forward the report later this year. How much of the red-tape perspective is a burden within your organization, rather than just a dollar value and the cost of moving forward from a business perspective?

[Ben Brunnen]

Certainly red tape is an issue we're hearing and seeing from our membership. Being in Calgary, we are Canada's energy hub, and a lot of the projects do have provincial and national requirements, regulatory requirements, and approval processes. One of the key opportunities right now to strengthen the regulatory framework is through stronger coordination approval processes--for example, the environmental approvals as well as project approvals moving forward for these energy projects. In addition to that, certainty and some clarity and some movement forward regarding working with our aboriginal communities here in western Canada would really make some great headway towards helping the energy sector diversify and access new markets.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Patry, the other committee I sit on is government operations, and we're doing a study for small and medium business organizations, SMEs, to try to help with the innovation sector. Following up on the sports analogy, you served it back to us, and maybe I'll punt it back to you, the Jenkins report element. We heard that Canada is not short of ideas. We've been poor at taking the concept of commercialization from patent to product to profit. There is a good working relationshipwith U of A, UBC, and other universities with researchers and academics, and that's very positive.

What I've heard is the innovators not having the financing. We're saying we have $7 billion, a record investment. How do we get that money to the next stage?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Let's leave some time for an answer.

Mr. Patry.

[Gilles Patry]

This is the challenge, and in the Jenkins report there is a reference to looking at the SR and ED credits in one way, which is an indirect form to a more direct form, and this is probably going to be brought back to you.

There is also reference to the capital aspects, so venture capital is a key element.

Our track record in Canada in terms of venture capital support is, to say the least, very modest compared to the U.S. I think that's an area where there is potential for the business sector to invest and the government to support that initiative to foster access to capital in a much more proactive way than we do right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Ms. Sims now, please, for five minutes.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you.

My apologies for being late. I am a substitute at this meeting. I went to your scheduled place and then was sent somewhere else. Eventually I found you.

I'm sorry I missed all the presentations, but I'm a good reader, so I will take this home and read all your presentations. Specifically, I want to turn to you, Mark, for some of the stuff I've read here.

Climate change and its impact is not new to any of us around the table. We're experiencing it right here with changes in our weather. I'm interested in how you have looked at the tax breaks for the oil and gas industry and also for the biofuels and how taking a look at those could help us to save money, not only to redirect toward global climate financing but also toward some of our other projects.

Could you expand a little on the second-generation biofuels and how those subsidies to those industries are damaging our food chain?

[Mark Fried]

Thank you for the question.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they're damaging the food chain.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

The food supply, I should say.

[Mark Fried]

Second-generation biofuels refer to biofuels made from cereal-based crops, essentially from corn for ethanol and some wheat, mostly canola, for biodiesel.

The problem has come because the supports to the biofuel industry were envisioned originally as a climate change measure, as a way to help reduce greenhouse gas emissions, because when you burn ethanol or biodiesel it releases fewer emissions into the atmosphere than when you burn gasoline or fossil fuel diesel.

The problem is when you take the whole life cycle of the production it produces more greenhouse gas emissions, according to the latest science, because of the way we grow corn.

The real problem for Oxfam, though, comes on the food side, because in Canada we burn.... I did the calculation recently, and it is astounding how much corn we turn into ethanol every year. It's about four billion kilos of corn. I say kilos rather than tonnes because that's what people eat. If it were emergency rations, we would be feeding over three million people for a whole year on what we burn in that year in our cars.

It doesn't make sense to us. It does contribute to the rising food prices we've experienced around the world and the rise in hunger that has been consequent to that rise in food prices. Nearly a billion people in the world are hungry today, chronically undernourished, looking for their next meal and not knowing where they're going to get it.

That we're taking all that food and using it in our cars doesn't make the best sense to us. We think perhaps we should re-examine and redirect those subsidies and the mandate toward third-generation biofuels or solar or wind or other renewable sources.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

When we talk in percentages and we talk about freezing the budget, it always sounds so clinical and distant. From you I would want to hear about some of the impacts on the ground that you see of Canada's foreign aid budget being frozen, let's say into the next year.

[Mark Fried]

There's--

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I want the human element.

[Mark Fried]

Certainly. As you all know, Canada has played an important role in Afghanistan to help girls attend school. There were practically no girls going to school under the Taliban government. Right now there are thousands of girls in school, but there are still millions who are not in school, because the schools don't exist. The teachers aren't there. There aren't sufficient female teachers. Canada should be providing significantly more funding to help train those teachers in Afghanistan and elsewhere, so that children have an opportunity to make a life. We could make the same case for health care, where Canada's aid has been extremely effective in helping to reduce maternal mortality. It could do so much more with an increase. If it's frozen, it limits it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have thirty seconds.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Pauline, in the nursing profession, we all know the kinds of struggles the nurses face in their 12-hour shifts. In this project, how many centres are you looking to expand this pilot project to with the funding you've suggested in here?

[Pauline Worsfold]

As far and wide as it will allow. Then, with the pilot projects, you have to build something that's sustainable for the future. You can't just drop a pilot project and say okay, that was really nice, and yes it supports the research on the shelf. Now we have to apply it to the workplaces.

I would say we hope it spreads across the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you.

We'll go now to Mr. Jean, please.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for attending today.

I have a question for Mr. Beaudet. My question is in relation to the investments in research and development by this government. Who does most of the research and development in Canada? Where does that take place?

[Dr. Alain Beaudet]

In the health sector, specifically?