Evidence of meeting #32 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
In the Montreal office, we're talking about some thirty people who were asked to resign or who took an early retirement. We are also talking about 150 public servants who are being investigated. That's quite major.
This has been going on for six years. So I'm asking you to tell us when this will be finished. A date isn't much to ask for.
11:55 a.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Mr. Chair, first I would like to reiterate how we stand behind and reaffirm the CRA's confidence in the integrity and professionalism of its employees, including the employees--
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Mr. Chair, he answered that question. He already gave that same answer. I know he has confidence in his employees.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Order, order.
Monsieur Giguère, I allowed the question. It's only fair for me to allow the answer. So let me allow Mr. Dinis to answer, and you can certainly ask a supplementary question.
11:55 a.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Mr. Chair, I just wanted to confirm our support for our staff.
Secondly, the numbers that have been quoted in committee today are not numbers that I recognize.
Thirdly, on the question regarding when it's over, I'd like to say that the CRA takes these allegations very seriously. We are cooperating with the proper law enforcement agencies. I cannot speculate when those investigations will come to a conclusion.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
As for the flow of personnel, it's a problem because an employee can leave the agency to take a job in the private sector and handle the file he investigated.
Do you plan to put an end to that practice by imposing a legal opt out of two or three years on public servants? That's what's generally done in the private sector. Why doesn't the agency do it?
11:55 a.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Mr. Chair, this is something we want to do; it's one of the points that we're looking at. I don't want to assume what the outcome will be, but I can tell the committee that the agency is considering it for the future.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Thank you.
With respect to aggressive tax planning, a few files were shocking. I think that several sizeable instances of aggressive tax planning took place without measures being taken. Among other things, we're talking about $200 million withdrawn in capital gains, without the slightest taxation. Unless I'm mistaken, it was generally the National Bank that was involved.
When and how are you going to put an end to these practices?
11:55 a.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Mr. Chair, this particular question is not something that I'm in a position to respond to. It deals with a particular tax file or tax situation. I'm not at liberty to comment on this particular file.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I didn't name the people who were involved in this aggressive tax planning, just the financial institution.
I would also like to know if your agency is now able to link the age of taxpayers to their income, so that you can determine whether a person is entitled to the Guaranteed Income Supplement and does not have to submit an application to obtain it.
11:55 a.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Mr. Chair, we are able to validate the eligibility of the individuals who are applying for this program. It's something that we do as part of our core business. We continue to refine our ability to do that. It's something that we're committed to doing going forward, as we have in the past. It's a validation check to make sure that anyone who is receiving those benefits and entitlements is indeed an individual who is entitled to those benefits.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
My question was a little more specific.
Right now, an application has to be submitted to obtain this supplement. I'd like to know whether, by linking the age of people to their income using your lists, you could determine who is entitled to the supplement and simply give it to them, without them having to apply for it.
11:55 a.m.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
I believe this is something that I would have to come back to the committee on. It's program-specific and I'd have to validate the response before providing it to you.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
Mr. Jean, unfortunately you have about one minute for a quick question.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I guess all my two hours of preparation last night for this silent question was a total waste of time, unfortunately.
I'm interested in the difference between electronic filing and paper filing. Obviously I don't have time to ask the question or to get the answer, but I would ask you to provide it to the clerk or the chair of the committee, please.
I'm interested in the difference between the cost of administering an electronic filing compared to a manual filing. Are there any incentives that you provide for Canadians to encourage them to file electronically? Are there any additional compliance mechanisms? I understand that the compliance mechanisms and audits are hugely successful. Has CRA looked at any other opportunities for encouraging people to comply outside of on-site audits, such as telephone audits or things like that? Indeed, is there any information that would suggest there is a better return on investment for Canadians through filing electronically? And how do you encourage them to do so through marketing programs and things like that? Obviously, the United States has had much greater success than we have had at that.
Finally, I understand that tax credits have been hugely successful. We heard from a transit authority, the CUTA, that said it there has been huge take-up. I find those very attractive, because if you pay tax, you obviously get a tax credit if you make use of the tax credit offered, but if you don't pay tax and you don't use it, it doesn't cost Canadians anything. Have you seen tremendous uptake of those tax credits that have been offered by the federal government over the last few years?
As I said, there's not time for an answer, but if you could forward that to the chair, I'd appreciate receiving it directly that way.
Thank you.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay, thank you, Mr. Jean.
If we could get as much information as possible on that, and any other follow-up information, please do provide it to the clerk. We will ensure that all members get it.
We want to thank you so much for being with us here this morning.
We will suspend for a couple of minutes, colleagues, and we'll bring the officials from the Department of Finance forward.
Noon
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Thank you.