Finance Committee on Oct. 24th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. McGuinty.

Mr. Van Kesteren, please.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I was expecting to take the next round, but I'll gladly take this round.

Thank you all for coming. It's good to see you all.

Mr. Scholz, I want to remind you about the national energy program the Liberals introduced back in the seventies and what a great resounding success that was. I would like to say as well that when we talk about a national energy program, we have gone far beyond that, I think, as a government. We've proven it. I think you'd probably agree, too, that when we talk about gas, we need markets. And especially for the gas you refer to, in northern B.C., transportation is going to be the biggest issue.

The route we are closest to, of course, and we are closer than anyone, is to the east: Japan, Korea, and China.

Although Mr. McGuinty is correct in saying that the Chinese have huge reserves—I think they're the second largest in the world—they still have to manufacture all those pipelines. We have this window of opportunity, don't we, that we can...?

Again I say that rather than talking about an energy program, we're already moving in that direction. One of the things we have acted on is one project, one review.

I wonder if you could just comment on that and tell us how important that is.

[Mark Scholz]

Certainly we're extremely supportive of the government's plans to streamline some of these major projects. I think everyone, including our industry and our association, is cognizant of the fact that we have to ensure that we're building these projects bearing in mind the environmental sensitivities and that we're doing them as safely as possible.

At the end of the day, I think there's a way to do that with some of the processes and streamlining initiatives your government is proposing. We're very much supportive of that.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Liquefied natural gas is the means of transportation to the far east. Is there any other port in North America presently other than the one in Louisiana? How much closer are we to Louisiana from Kitimat, say?

[Mark Scholz]

Unfortunately, I'm going to decline to comment on that. I'm not the expert.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

It's about 7,000 miles.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Mark Scholz]

I'm not an expert on that particular question, so I'll leave that up to another witness.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you. We certainly are very encouraged by what's happening in the natural gas field.

Mr. Dayler, I want to speak to you. It's good to see you again.

You've mentioned that we've missed an opportunity. You've acknowledge this too, but I just want to mention that our government, since 2006, has invested more than $10 billion annually in students and education, including $3 billion in transfers to the provinces. Of course, the provinces administer education.

We've heard repeatedly in testimony from a number of different organizations and different fields, especially in the extraction industries, be it mining or oil or gas, about the shortages they are experiencing right now and about the shortages looming in the future.

What have we done wrong? Are we missing the boat? Are we not producing the people we need for these areas? And where is the shortfall? Is there something we can do federally, maybe, to coordinate a better plan in our post-secondary education?

[Zachary Dayler]

Thank you for the question.

I think what's important is investing in education, generally, to get people educated.

We're looking, in a lot of cases, at fewer jobs for people who are not going to school. During the recession there were 433,000 fewer jobs created for those without an education. When we're talking about labour gaps, from our perspective and from our members' perspective, whether it be pursuing university, college, or a specific trade, it's getting people in the door and ensuring that they're not leaving heavily indebted, so that they can pursue work opportunities.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I was more interested in whether we are advertising enough the fact that we need expertise in engineering and those fields. Is that something you're seeing at the higher levels of education?

[Zachary Dayler]

We can always do more to advertise getting an education and the needs of our markets for the labour that is out there. There is a lot of misinformation out there for students. Any steps that can be taken to clean that up are positive.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you very much. It was good to see you again.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

M. Mai, s'il vous plaît.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll continue with Mr. Dayler.

You say finding a job is one of the greatest challenges facing youth and students today. Yesterday we had the Canadian Federation of Students come before this committee. When we asked them whether things have been better or worse for students in the last six years, they said they have gotten worse.

When we look at the rate of unemployment, which is double for youth, and when we look at student loans, which are going up, what is your take on how things are going for youth and students?

[Zachary Dayler]

I think it's important to note that in 2012 Canada's employment rate for students aged 20 to 24 years was 63.2%. This was down from 67.4% in June 2011, and it is the same value recorded in June 2009, which is the worst point of the most recent recession. So definitely, for those young people in that 20- to 24-year age group who are still trying to pay for whatever the cost may be for university and college, it has become quite difficult.

The other point to note that I think is key to this is summer earnings. If you look at the years between 1977 and 2008, summer student employment averaged about 70%. In 2012, as I mentioned, the employment rate dipped again to 47.9% for that summer employment.

When students have the opportunity to work and not be in class, the jobs just aren't there. Then when they're studying, they're working more than ever before. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that's a little bit backwards.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you very much. I wish I had more time, because we understand that a lot of the issues and a lot of the things the government is doing right now are increasing the gap between the rich and the poor, and that also affects students. Unfortunately, I won't have time to go into that.

For the Rideau Institute, you've been very critical of how the government has been handling what we call the F-35 “fiasco”. You also mentioned the lack of transparency, lack of accountability.

Maybe 30 seconds on that front: what can the government do now to make things better?

[Steven Staples]

I think there are a lot of questions about where the government is on the seven steps they announced earlier this year. There has been some moving around of those priorities. They had a terrible time trying to find a firm that was going to provide some kind of independent analysis of this.

We were very much looking forward to greater scrutiny of it at the public works committee, which I think was going to do it at the sitting after the summer break. That was squelched, and there has been very little discussion over the last few months about what's happening in the secretariat. We think there needs to be much more oversight on this, and the government needs to be clearer.

For instance, we've had ministers talk about a contract. There is no contract for the F-35.

The price estimates have swayed dramatically, and they've had to change some of those estimates.

The public just doesn't know what's happening. There was a media report recently that quoted a Lockheed Martin registered lobbyist commenting on F-18s, yet the media report didn't identify that he was a registered lobbyist for Lockheed Martin. He was just presented as an expert, and the public is confused by that. That story ran across the country. We tried to catch up and change it.

But I think greater parliamentary oversight, which would inform MPs like you, and journalists, is really required on this file.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

In your answers to the question regarding structural change, you said that Canada has become more and more dependent on the export of unprocessed resources, and also that Canadian companies need to add value to our exports. That's something we've been pushing from our side too.

Can you maybe expand more on what more we can do on that front and how it would benefit Canada?

[Steven Staples]

Broadly, certainly an industrial strategy is required. I think the government has a role in assisting industry and making investments in key areas where we can do that. I think there are lots of areas where that can happen.

My particular area is in the high-tech field of defence procurement, which involves a lot of aerospace aspects. In particular, as I mentioned, the government is talking about doing a defence industrial strategy. That's not really the way to go at this point. As I mentioned, PWGSC is projecting that defence expenditures across the globe are going down. Those countries that are still involved in major defence procurement, like the U.S., are looking for jobs at home. They don't want to see F-35 jobs coming to Canada or Italy or other places.

Let's look at the commercial side. Where we do defence procurement, let's make sure we have industrial regional benefits, and make sure Canadian companies can compete, but let's focus on the commercial side. Bombardier's jets, I think, hold a lot more promise than fighters.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Adler, please.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I would appreciate, once again, if you could let me know when I have one minute left in my questioning.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Absolutely.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I have questions for pretty much all of you, but I do have to narrow my focus, in the spirit of time.

Mr. Staples, I have a quick question for you. Are you a registered lobbyist?

[Steven Staples]

Yes.