Yes, and with certain provinces.
Evidence of meeting #84 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #84 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Ms. Leibovici, in that scenario, how would the municipalities react if the government were to put in a provision that tenders didn't have any type of selection process as to whether it was union or non-unionized, that it went to the best person, the best qualified, with the best price? How do you see that working through your network?
4:10 p.m.
President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
What we're looking for in terms of the plan is that it's long term, sustainable, and flexible to meet the needs of the individual municipalities. Again, these are details that would need to be worked out in terms of the plan on a go-forward basis.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I don't mean to cut you off. I have only five minutes.
How would the municipalities that you represent react if the federal government were to come down and say it wants to make sure the tendering process is done in such a way that everybody is included in the tendering? How would you react to that scenario?
4:10 p.m.
President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Again, municipalities have their own needs,which they meet. Within each province, those needs are different as well. The trade agreements are different, too, so that's something we would obviously need to look at.
The key with regard to the long-term infrastructure plan is that it has to be able to meet the needs of the individual municipalities, which may well be different from the needs on a national basis.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Can you give me a reason why we wouldn't include an open tendering process? Why does there need to be a tender where only union members are allowed to bid on a project?
4:15 p.m.
President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Municipalities have autonomy when it comes to certain areas. In terms of the individual circumstances of a municipality that may wish to have a different tendering process, that is allowable under all the trade agreements that we currently have. It might be something they need to have.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
So it's fair that some municipalities might have trade agreements with the unions already that insist on union-only shops being able to bid on jobs within the....
4:15 p.m.
President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
I couldn't answer that. It may well be.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I'm simply trying to think of an example—Mr. Marston, you might be able to help me with that—of why there'd be a situation such that only unionized workers would be allowed to bid on a job. I have a hard time understanding that. It could be ideology, and that's fair, but in the same breath, we have only so many dollars to spend every year and we want to be as efficient with that money as possible and still provide the services that Canadians have come to expect.
I say you can do it with a unionized shop or without a unionized shop; I'm not making a preference either way. I'm simply trying to figure out why we would be gerrymandering a tendering process to favour one over the other.
Mr. Oakey.
4:15 p.m.
President, Merit Canada
Sir, if I could comment, that's exactly what I'm here to convey. We're not asking for rules that would allow only our members or the open-shop sector to bid. We simply want the ability to compete, and let the best bid win.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Scott Brison
Thank you, Mr. Hoback.
We're now going to begin a new round, starting with Mr. Marston.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Oakey, we probably could have a fairly spirited discussion around unionized shops, since I was 44 years in the trade union movement before coming here.
You mentioned a Hamilton contract. As I represent Hamilton East, I really have to speak to the fact that good, solid union wages built our city. Good union wages put our workers' kids through college, and through university, in a lot of instances, where they would not have been able to do that. But I don't want to get into that. As I say, we could have a coffee and do that sort of thing.
Who do you see as your direct competitors? Are they other companies? From listening to your presentation, it sounded as though you were describing unions as your direct competitors as opposed to companies.
4:15 p.m.
President, Merit Canada
No, in terms of this specific issue that I'm talking about with open tendering, certain people we compete with have gerrymandered the system so that we can't actually compete with them. They're not our competition.
Generally, Merit Canada doesn't necessarily have competition. Each of our members go out into their local market to build buildings and build schools. They compete locally, sometimes with other open-shop companies, sometimes with union shops. As the market works, sometimes they win those competitions and sometimes they lose.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
As you were likely very aware, just last week we were having a discussion here, studying Bill C-377. I wish you had been here for that.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Great. Well, I'll tip my hand right now.
Have you been engaged in ongoing lobbying activities relative to this?
4:15 p.m.
President, Merit Canada
Yes. All of my meetings with MPs from the Conservative—
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
No, I'm sure you would tell us the truth. I wasn't implying that you were hiding anything.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Don't misunderstand me. We don't have the record sitting in front of us, and I just—
4:15 p.m.
President, Merit Canada
I can provide it. I actually brought it with me because I anticipated the question.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
No, that's fine. Your answer is fine with me. We're not headhunting here or anything like that. I was just curious.
Could you, for the benefit of the committee, describe your business model, how you function relative to the jobs that you put in the field, the controls in this that you would have?
4:15 p.m.
President, Merit Canada
Sure. Just to be clear, Merit Canada is not a construction company. We're an association of eight provincial open-shop construction associations. So we represent every province other than Quebec. As you may or may not know, open-shop construction is not allowed in Quebec. It's all union. If you don't have a union card, you can be fined or jailed in the province of Quebec, which is unfortunate, so we don't represent anyone in that province. But we represent workers in every other province, other than Prince Edward Island, which is something we are currently addressing as well.