Finance Committee on Nov. 27th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Monsieur Côté.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

This clause and the subsequent clauses seek to merge four separate crown corporations that manage five international bridges.

The first major aspect is that this provision was once again incorporated into an omnibus bill. It did not deserve to be reviewed separately which shows a lack of respect on the part of the government. It is somewhat troubling, if not very troubling. However, we are still talking to a wall, which is rather sad in this case.

Before we move to the vote, I would like to raise another point. The Federal Bridge Corporation Limited, which will be responsible for these bridges, will not be governed by its own law the way the four crown corporations were. We can therefore ask ourselves if the new entity will be subject to an independent oversight mechanism or whether it will be subject to the government's arbitrary power. Will we be kept somewhat in the dark?

It is really unfortunate for the communities that will be affected. They would have certainly deserved to have this provision reviewed separately, and so would have all the people who use those international bridges connecting us to the United States. The committee was not able to spend more than a few minutes on this issue. As we clearly recall, the officials were forced into a very fast-paced game of musical chairs. There was also the information evening that basically went on until midnight. Unfortunately, this provision is imposed on us and fails to respect a large segment of the Canadian population, meaning the businesses and people who must use those bridges and who will be affected by those amendments.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Côté.

(Clause 249 agreed to on division)

Can I group clauses 250 to 255?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

(Clauses 250 to 255 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 256—Charges)

Colleagues, on clause 256 we have amendment PV-13.

We'll go to Ms. May for a minute.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm sorry that I wasn't able to track the committee hearings as to whether this was discussed, but it strikes me as anomalous. This is under the section on bridges, with the conveyance of a number of named bridges and reorganization of certain crown corporations bridges to allow those to be disposed of.

This is essentially infrastructure developed through the public purse, but under subclause 256(2): The amalgamated corporation may authorize another person to fix or charge tolls, fees and other charges for the use of such a bridge or tunnel.

Amendment PV-13 proposes to delete the ability of this newly created private entity to charge tolls on bridges that were built as public infrastructure, converting them to a private cash cow. I'm sure that on reflection, my colleagues in the Conservative Party will also vote to delete these lines.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to the vote on amendment PV-13.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 256 agreed to on division)

Shall clauses 257 to 268 carry?

[An hon. member]

Let's go to clause 269.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Shall clauses 257 to 269 carry?

(Clauses 257 to 269 inclusive agreed to on division)

Monsieur Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Chair, can we take a five-minute break please? The meeting has been going for about two and a half hours.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I was waiting to see if our dinner was ready.

Do you want to go for a short break now?

We're not going to debate this.

Let's take a break, and we'll see if the food is ready.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I call this meeting back to order.

This is meeting number 12 of the Standing Committee on Finance, continuing our discussion of Bill C-4, clause-by-clause consideration.

Colleagues, we left off at clause 270. Will we deal with clause 270 separately?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Yes, we'll deal with clause 270 separately, and then clause 271.

(Clause 270 agreed to)

(On clause 271)

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Is there discussion?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

We support this. While we welcome the introduction of a separate position for the chair of the National Research Council, we want to point out that the Conservatives have been cutting, and in fact gutting, this internationally respected institution and eliminating its capacity for discovery research.

The Conservative approach to the NRC is very troubling for our future innovation capacity. As this committee well knows, when it comes to innovation, Canada's ranking is near the bottom of the OECD. To undermine our scientific capacity and therefore further undermine our innovation capacity is travelling in the wrong direction. I want to make that point.

However, we will be supporting the creation of a separate position for the chair of the NRC.

(Clause 271 agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

May I group clauses 272 to.... No?

Will we deal with all of them separately? Okay.

(On clause 272)

Is there debate on clause 272?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Yes, I want to make the point that we do not support this clause because it cuts the maximum size of the council down from 18 to just 10. We're concerned that a reduction in size could be a reduction in oversight, and that's why we'll be voting against it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

On this clause, Mr. McGuinty, go ahead.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A lot of NRC officials live and work in my riding. I've heard a lot of them, as we like to say, viva voce, live voices, say that they're deeply concerned by these cuts. They believe that a larger number of voices at council is going to be more productive and more helpful for the federal government in pursuing an innovation strategy for the country. That multiplicity of voices is being eroded with these cuts for what seems to be almost indecipherable amounts of money.

This is something that's very difficult for my constituents, and a lot of folks who work at NRC, to understand.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you for the debate on clause 272.

(Clause 272 agreed to)

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Chair, do you want to group the next three clauses?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, we'll group clauses 273 to 275.

(Clauses 273 to 275 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 276)

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

We have amendment PV-14.

We'll ask Ms. May to speak to it first, and then I'll go to Mr. Rankin.

Ms. May, go ahead, for about a minute.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This amendment is quite straightforward. It goes to the heart of respect for veterans in this country. It's division 11, a change at page 217. Division 11 is exactly one clause that changes the Veterans Review and Appeal Board Act by replacing the terms by which the independent board is appointed.

My amendment is really quite straightforward. I think it creates an improvement in how the Veterans Review and Appeal Board would be struck. I'm not proposing to change the numbers, which is one of the main things that has changed in this. This says “25 permanent members…appointed by the Governor in Council and any number of temporary members….”. What I am proposing as an amendment is that the members who join the Veterans Review and Appeal Board be based on at least the advice of the Veterans Ombudsman.

I'm not suggesting that the Veterans Ombudsman make the choice, but that in making these appointments, the Governor in Council have reference to, and seek the advice of, the Veterans Ombudsman who, of course, is himself or herself appointed by Governor in Council. In other words, it's getting expert advice about the best possible people.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Ms. May.

I have Mr. Rankin on debate on this amendment.