Evidence of meeting #86 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:30 a.m.
NDP
Raymond Côté NDP Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, colleague.
Mr. Astle, you said that jurisprudence had been widely unfavourable regarding the protection of information exchanged between clients and experts in this area. Do you think that most of these judges' decisions, or a large proportion of them, were justified?
10:30 a.m.
Past President, Intellectual Property Institute of Canada
The decisions were the decisions of a court, and I would say based on the evidence before the court in those particular instances.
I don't know to any great detail the specifics of the cases, but I do know that there have been instances in Canada where lawyers' files, in connection with the advice they provided relative to securing intellectual property rights, have been opened in the courts simply on the basis of the precedents established by earlier decisions.
This concerns me. It should concern the law societies. I'm surprised by the opposition to this, in that the principles involved seek to protect the administration of justice; they seek to protect access to justice.
Lawyers enjoy this particular characteristic with respect to their conversations or discussions with their clients, but it provides them with a unique position, which I believe is—
10:35 a.m.
Past President, Intellectual Property Institute of Canada
If I may answer your question, which is a competitive—
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Raymond Côté NDP Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Mr. Astle, I apologize, and I thank you for your elaborate reply, but I must also let my colleague Pierre Dionne Labelle take the floor.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I'm going to conclude.
I heard your criticism regarding the reason for our opposition. In fact, our objection is not, basically, about the content of the bill, however we do wonder about one thing. This question is not addressed only to you, since it could also go to the RCMP. How is it that we are being presented with omnibus bills that involve budgetary questions, and in which matters are discussed that could be studied by other instances and in the context of other laws? The provisions affecting the Industrial Design Act, the Patent Act and the Trade-Marks Act could have been part of a separate bill and have been studied in that framework rather than being included in a budget bill.
Thank you, Mr. Rajotte.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
That may be more of a question for the government.
Mr. Astle, I'll let you finish your earlier response on your particular provisions.
10:35 a.m.
Past President, Intellectual Property Institute of Canada
I guess my concern, in response to the first question, is that it seems that what the law societies are seeking to preserve here is a competitive advantage over others who are providing advice relative to legal rights. I think that if one reflects on the principles for which privilege exists, the legislation before us is appropriate.
As regards timing, there's no better time to do the right thing as the present. I don't understand why it should be an issue. We've had all-party support in our discussions to date, so the pushback that I'm feeling here is curious to me. I'm not clear on why there's any resistance to this.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Thank you, Chair.
My first question is going to be for Mrs. Benson.
Mrs. Benson, if I heard you correctly, you said that the current public service sick leave system has been around for 35-plus years, since you started, and that it's fine. Now, just because something's been around for 35-plus years, are you saying that it doesn't need to be changed or modernized?
10:35 a.m.
National President, Executive Office, Public Service Alliance of Canada
No, I'm certainly not saying that. What I'm saying is that the government or the Treasury Board has yet to indicate to us what is wrong with it, where the flaws are in it.
Certainly, if they were to point out flaws, we would enter into negotiations in good faith. But when you don't come and point out the flaws, and you simply say that you want to modernize it, it brings us to a point where our members would have to choose between going to work sick or having a full paycheque. I might add that our members live paycheque to paycheque now, so it's very difficult should they find themselves in a position where their paycheque is less than what they expect because they would be on leave without pay.
But division 20—
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
National President, Executive Office, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Okay.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
You've been at this committee now for an hour and a half. You've listened to testimony from others, including Mr. Lee. Do you not hear what the problems with the current system are?
10:35 a.m.
National President, Executive Office, Public Service Alliance of Canada
There actually are not, in the sense—
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Did you hear what the current problems with the system are?
10:35 a.m.
National President, Executive Office, Public Service Alliance of Canada
—that they're all very manageable—
10:35 a.m.
National President, Executive Office, Public Service Alliance of Canada
If I might...? Because I am a supervisor in my other life with the Canada Revenue Agency, I actually do manage the sick leave of the staff that I supervise. What we have is that if somebody is away sick, they call in to me. I make sure they're well enough to come to back to work. There are provisions to earn 9.375 hours per month. Should they use all of that sick leave, we have the opportunity to advance them sick leave. Should that not work—
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
National President, Executive Office, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Okay.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
—so I have to get to the crux of the matter here.
If the current system is fine, why have other governments, provincial governments, abandoned it long ago, and why does it not exist in the private sector? Can you answer that for me?
10:35 a.m.
National President, Executive Office, Public Service Alliance of Canada
The current system works well for the employees of Treasury Board, who are hard-working Canadians, and certainly, if we were to identify a flaw—
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
It has been abandoned in the provincial public service.
10:35 a.m.
National President, Executive Office, Public Service Alliance of Canada
—we would negotiate.