Evidence of meeting #3 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, Mr. Caron.
Mr. Marotte, leave your paper with the clerk and we'll get it translated. Thank you.
Mr. Sorbara.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful comments in your presentations. I'm trying to keep these questions direct so I can get feedback from a number of people.
Janet, for CARP, to put it on the record, our platform did contain a measure to improve the GIS, specifically a 10% increase, $920 a year, which will benefit 1.2 million single seniors in Canada, of which 900,000 are female. That is a large measure that we advocated for in our platform and hope to see in the coming months, so I'd like to put that out there.
I have a question on the 70% replacement income. How is that number determined in looking at.... We understand that folks retire with a level of income. There is some discussion and debate out there on different levels of income having an appropriate level of retirement savings, and other levels of income not having appropriate levels.
I wanted to get your thoughts on the 70% and on the debate that's occurring.
4:30 p.m.
Chapter President, Ottawa Chapter, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
I wouldn't say that it's an arbitrary number, but it is a number that is fairly well grounded in the financial industry. That's your pension amount if you have a full 35-year pension. If you have a pension, you're likely going to have 70% of your retirement income, so that's pretty much where it comes from.
Can people live on less than 70%? A lot of Canadians are doing that already. It's not a hard and fast rule; it's just a general guideline.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
This is my second question. We know that statistically in Canada there are more 65-year-olds and older versus 15-year-olds and younger. Are there any changes that you think we can make to incentivize older individuals to remain in the labour force, any type of reform of OAS or GIS that your organization would look at or would advocate for?
4:35 p.m.
Chapter President, Ottawa Chapter, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
First of all, they have their own incentive, which is strictly to keep paying their bills and to maintain their lifestyle. Is there something else you can do? Absolutely, and I think some of that is already in place. If they delay CPP and OAS, they do have an incentive to get a little bit more. Could that be increased? Sure, that's a great start.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Chapter President, Ottawa Chapter, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
Yes, let's change those.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
For Mr. Lee and Mr. Kelly I have a joint question.
The changes that went through on the temporary foreign worker program—looking at 2013 versus now—have disrupted that program significantly.
I come from York Region, specifically in the Vaughan area. We probably have several of the largest home builders in all of Canada. There is a shortage of skilled tradesmen. I hear it all the time. I actually met with individuals on Saturday morning to discuss the shortage again because they have it. We need some solutions and I think that has to come from government and the private sector.
My question is about what you can see in terms of how we either fill the shortage organically or with the temporary foreign workers. Are there any suggestions on your part?
4:35 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
To the question earlier about why we have a mismatch of jobs as well, I think that for quite a while Canada has been pushing our young people into a university education, degree, and career that doesn't necessarily always lead to the jobs that are at hand.
I think one of the important things, moving forward, is that as a country we.... In Europe they call it “parity of esteem” and it's something we have adopted here to encourage young people to get into some great careers that are skills based that apply to residential construction and others.
With respect to the temporary foreign worker situation, the GTA is experiencing an extreme shortage right now of framers. Connected to various things—it's sort of a perfect storm of an economy that's still doing really well—are some crackdowns that occurred in terms of foreign workers, legal and maybe not so legal, in recent times.
How do we deal with that? The express entry system that is supposed to help people get back in—and not even necessarily on a part-time basis or a temporary basis, but leading quickly to long-term Canadian status to stay here and help build this country—is an important piece.
We think that, yes, the express entry system for temporary foreign workers.... The thing with temporary foreign workers is also that, in an emergency situation, there are often exceptions to how you can get them in. How do we define those situations so that we can bring the workers in or back into the country?
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I have just one more comment for Mr. Kelly.
We do know that many workplaces aren't offering pension plans in Canada. There's a whole movement away from defined benefit plans to no pension plan, or potentially defined contribution plans, or hybrids of such.
The CPP is a world-renowned model, looked at from many jurisdictions—low fees, great asset managers, arm's-length—so there are many pluses on the CPP side. I think an enhancement to CPP is a prudent step to take because there is a gap in someone having a dignified retirement in Canada, so I want to put that out there. That's a measure we need to look at and I'd like to get some feedback from your side.
4:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Sure. One thing, to just chime in on that front, is that some at the political level feel that it will help equalize small firms against larger firms because everybody will have to start paying into a pension that they might not otherwise have.
I will point you to the data that the Ontario government collected, which shows that only 10% of small businesses feel that this will help them in attracting workers; 90% don't. Entrepreneurs do not feel that this is going to help them. In fact, for those who are introducing a voluntary pension vehicle, that is what helps them become an employer of choice.
I certainly don't disagree with your point. More employers can and perhaps should get involved in the pension game. We do like the pooled registered pension plan. Even the Ontario government is looking to introduce it, which is good news. But mandatory payroll tax hikes right now, even dedicated to things as important as retirement, we feel would quite frankly be devastating for the Canadian economy.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
I have a couple of questions for clarification. Kevin, did you indicate that you're finding a skilled worker shortage in parts of the country? Are there not excess skilled workers in those same trades in Alberta these days?
4:40 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
Interestingly, not necessarily. There was a major shortage of skilled trades in Alberta as everything was going. Many of them have left Alberta and gone back to their home provinces. In some instances that is providing and filling that gap, but in other instances we haven't see that. The example of the GTA is probably the most pressing right now. We have national builders who had workers in Alberta and they are unable to get the people they need.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
It seems to me that we have a disconnect, and we should be looking at this as part of the budget. How do we ensure that those skilled workers move from one part of the country to the other as they certainly did in the oil and gas sector?
Dan—and Mr. Chairman, I've known Mr. Kelly for a long time so I can call him Dan—in the last election campaign we heard some reference that many small businesses are simply a tax dodge. Could you respond to that?
4:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
The clip that aired on The National was an interview with Peter Mansbridge when the Prime Minister commented that a large percentage of small businesses were simply ways for wealthy Canadians to save on their taxes. We immediately sought clarification because if the Prime Minister through those comments is channelling that his government will not tolerate anybody setting up a fake company to benefit from the small business corporate tax rate, we will applaud that and we will take no issue with that whatsoever.
If, on the other hand, there is the sense that some small businesses are not deserving of the lower rate of taxation for small firms, and some provinces have been putting this forward, several of them have moved. For example the Quebec government, which has made a lot of really good public policy choices, has decided to eliminate access to the small business rate for any business that has three or fewer employees, so the smallest of small companies in Quebec starting in 2017, next year, will no longer have access to the lower rate of taxation on small businesses. The depanneurs across the river will no longer be able to access that and will pay the big business rate.
Our worry is that the federal government may be drawing some inspiration from that. We don't know the government's intention. It does worry us though that this same theme is in the mandate letter for the new Minister of Small Business Bardish Chagger. We're going to be meeting with her next week, so we look forward to that. At the moment we're seeking clarification from the federal government as to what that means.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
A good percentage of your membership are not sausage companies; they're professional companies. Is that not correct?
4:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Indeed we have about 5,000 doctors, lawyers, and dentists as members.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
Kevin and Mr. Kelly, I'd also like to ask you about the TFSA. You've talked a lot in your brief about how devastating an increase in CPP premiums would be. Give us your thoughts on the decision not to stay at the doubling of the TFSA.
4:40 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
From our perspective, one of the things that the TFSA does is that it obviously encourages savings and provides a vehicle for people to save for down payments and the like for their houses. Currently given the way house prices are going, you know you can put money into your RRSP and you can pull it out if you're a first-time homebuyer and that sort of thing, but the ability to save outside of that is necessary in many markets. We have been supporters of having a good and strong TFSA program in Canada.
4:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
On that front from our perspective, when we did a public opinion poll of Canadians asking them if they did have more money to save for their retirement where would they like to place it—I'm looking for the data. I don't have it in front of me. The top choice was that if Canadians had more money to save for their retirement they would put it into a TFSA first, RRSP second, and way down near the bottom of the list was CPP.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
Erik, some of the things that we've just been talking about seem to me to be the kinds of things that I would hope organizations like yours would advocate for, not necessarily on behalf of your current membership but for future membership, things that Dan Kelly just mentioned.
4:45 p.m.
Board Chair, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
Was that regarding skilled workers?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
More along the line of small businesses and potentially removing the taxation benefits of being a small business.
4:45 p.m.
Board Chair, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
That is a tough thing and I think it might be worth a conversation.
Ultimately CASA has to advocate for the students and our members, some of which are polytechnic institutions.
What I was dying to say earlier, when you guys were talking about skilled workers, is that CASA is advocating on labour market information so people that are graduating high school know where jobs are and know what industries they are in. That's something that's lacking right now, and to have the labour market information would really benefit that.
The other thing that would help is funding for experiential learning for paid co-ops and paid internships. One of our delegates is from SAIT, the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology. They don't have funding. There are students who have completed all of their courses, but there's no funding available to get their hours. There's no funding in order for them to get their internship hours so they can become qualified electricians, carpenters, plumbers, you name it.