Evidence of meeting #137 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses for your excellent testimony.
Mr. Cunningham, I'd like to start with you, please.
Approximately how much revenue would a cost recovery fee from the tobacco and vaping product companies raise to help compensate the government for its federal tobacco control strategy?
5:35 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
It should raise $66 million per year, which is the entire cost of the strategy. The government may do it in phases and start with part of that.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
You mentioned that we do have a cost recovery fee on the cannabis industry. That's been in place since 2018, to recover the cost of federal government cannabis initiatives.
Why is this approach only being applied to tobacco now?
5:35 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
Certainly, it has been urged for a long time. When it was applied to the cannabis fee, it really raised the profile of the possibility here in Parliament about how it could be done for tobacco as well, and now for vaping products.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I also note that the government is pursuing cost recovery for natural health products, which is a little bit ironic because natural health products are mainly used by Canadians to improve their health, yet the government has been reluctant to implement cost recovery for tobacco products, which harm Canadians' health. That's another example.
Given the lengthy history of cross-party support for cost recovery in the tobacco field, can you explain why it hasn't been done until now?
5:35 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
I don't really have a good answer. Certainly, we've urged for it for a long time. It makes sense. It provides revenue for the government. The tobacco industry should be accountable for this.
We're very glad it's coming forward now. The next step, when this bill passes, will be to have regulations. We urge for it to be done right, and as quickly as possible.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I was going to speculate on effective tobacco industry lobbying. Has that played a role, in your opinion?
5:35 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
They have been lobbying against these provisions in this bill, including in their appearance before the Senate committee, in their written brief there and in their written submission to this committee.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Why did it open in 2013? Did you detect disturbing food insecurity in your community at that time?
5:35 p.m.
Chair, Otonabee-South Monaghan Food Cupboard
We understood that there was food insecurity, but the other thing was that when I went to the central food distribution place in the Peterborough area—which was actually located in Peterborough—they showed me a map, and there were food support systems all around the whole county of Peterborough, except in the Otonabee-South Monaghan Township.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thanks.
Dr. German, Bill C-59 would permit FINTRAC to disclose designated information to the Department of the Environment and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, subject to certain conditions. What impact do you expect this provision to have on the investigation and prosecution of money laundering, terrorist financing or sanctions evasion offences?
5:35 p.m.
Chair, Advisory Committee, Vancouver Anti-Corruption Institute
Thank you for the question, Mr. Davies. It's good to see you online. Thank you for what you do for our community in Vancouver.
It's very important that FINTRAC's data be used. FINTRAC has so much information. We've written about the issues involving money laundering in the fisheries industry. It's hard to believe, but it goes on in the purchase of licences and so forth. It's become a very large commercial operation, and there are, of course, environmental crimes. Any time you have criminal activity, you want to be able to deal with the money laundering in the back office of that criminal activity in environmental crime and fisheries crime.
I would add that currently, our civil forfeiture offices across the country do not receive FINTRAC information. I can't tell you why they don't. They're doing the bulk of these money laundering investigations.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Dr. German, do you think we should be expanding the federal ministries or departments that ought to be able to receive this information beyond the two departments I just mentioned?
5:40 p.m.
Chair, Advisory Committee, Vancouver Anti-Corruption Institute
I definitely think that any department that is engaged in dealing with criminal activity should be the recipient of information from FINTRAC.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I think you touched on this, but I want to explore a bit the notion that Bill C-59 would require entities that provide acquirer services in relation to private automated banking machines to register as money services businesses. In your view, what impact will that have? What criteria should entities providing acquirer services for private ABMs be required to meet to register as money services businesses?
5:40 p.m.
Chair, Advisory Committee, Vancouver Anti-Corruption Institute
The important thing is registration. Once they are registered, FINTRAC will start the audit and compliance processes and make sure that they have training, etc. If they are not registered, nobody looks at them, quite frankly.
In your city, Vancouver, we've actually looked at them. The City of Vancouver has looked at these entities. It's very difficult to deal with the money laundering aspect through city bylaws and so forth. You need that federal regulation.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Now, Bill C-59 would also permit a court to “infer the knowledge or belief or recklessness required in relation to the offence of laundering proceeds of crime”. That is “if it is satisfied, given the circumstances of the offence, that the manner in which the accused dealt with the property or its proceeds is markedly unusual or the accused's dealings are inconsistent with lawful activities typical of the sector”.
How can courts effectively apply the inference provision to determine the “knowledge or belief or recklessness required” for money laundering offences?
5:40 p.m.
Chair, Advisory Committee, Vancouver Anti-Corruption Institute
Well, that's the sixty-four thousand dollar question, how the courts will interpret it. One of my concerns is that when you use a word like “markedly”, the courts are going to ask what “markedly” is. You're then going to have to call expert evidence and so forth. It could be difficult. That's why I suggested that we could be back before this committee with amendments to amendments. It's really to deal with these third party money launderers: the people who are not involved in the actual drug trafficking, but are doing the money laundering for them.
How do you differentiate the criminal entities doing that work from other money services businesses and so forth that are doing legitimate work? That's the problem.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
We're right at the end. I want to get in a quick second round, so each party will have three minutes, and then we have to get to the votes.
We have MP Epp, please.
April 11th, 2024 / 5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for their testimony today.
Whenever there's a small business here, that's where I'll start. Mr. Kantzavelos, I hear the acronym CFA, and I come from a farm background, so I think of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture. I've learned a new acronym. In my own history, I didn't use the dry cleaning services so much in my farm role, but over many years I have had a relationship with my local dry cleaner. I'm hot when I walk out of there. That is a hot environment.
As you recover from the pandemic, let me ask you, what's your cost structure been doing? That heat does not generate itself. How has inflation affected your business, your utility bills, your carrying costs, etc?
5:40 p.m.
President, Canadian Fabricare Association
Regarding that specific question, I'm very impressed that you brought it up, and I will answer in the following manner.
Although heat will make our lives difficult, it tremendously helps us dry our garments, and I'll tell you why. We're so efficient when it comes to things like this, and this is a great example. We all have large commercial dryers in our facilities and plants. They work on ambient air. Lots of them are fed with either natural gas or steam from a boiler.
If your air environment is at such a level that when your dryer calls for a certain temperature, the air is already at that temperature, you're not using natural gas or your boiler. These are some of the things that I'm discussing. It's very hard in five minutes to say.... Productivity is such a big word, but—
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Are your costs the same as before the pandemic, or are they up?