Finance Committee on May 2nd, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay, colleagues, we're back, and I call this meeting to order.

We are resuming meeting number 87 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance and the debate on the motion of PS Beech and the amendment by MP Blaikie in relation to the study of Bill C-47.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For interpretation for those on Zoom you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either the floor, or English or French. For those in the room you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

Again, just to focus, members, we were on a discussion of MP Blaikie's amendment. That would come at the end of the main motion, and it reads:

That the Minister of Finance be invited to appear for two hours on the bill and that this appearance be scheduled on or before May 18th, 2023.

MP Perkins last had the floor. I have MP Lawrence and MP Morantz on the list after MP Perkins.

Go ahead, MP Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, committee members. I'm starting to feel at home at this committee. I appreciate your indulgence over the last few hours on this issue, which really has to do with Mr. Blaikie's amendment and the primary motion by MP Beech and our seeking ministerial accountability for the budget implementation bill—

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I have Mr. Beech on a point of order.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

I'm sorry. I don't want to interrupt you too early, but it's been a while since we last left, and I just forgot whether you're speaking for or against the amendment. If you could clarify if you're speaking for or against the amendment, I look forward to the rest of your argument.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, PS Beech.

We'll go back to MP Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I believe the amendment is a good start but could probably use some improvement. I will get to that.

For those who have not been watching, that's too bad, but I think you'll find this enlightening going forward. The issue is that parliamentary committees call ministers. It's an invitation, really, to call ministers to appear on their legislation, because we can't generally compel ministers to appear. This legislation is the implementation of the Liberal government's budget bill.

As the finance committee has invited the Minister of Finance to appear in the last three months on three occasions and the minister has not availed herself of that opportunity to explain and I guess to promote in some ways her initiatives, from the economic statement on, there is a feeling in Parliament that the minister may not show again—

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I have a point of information, Mr. Chair, and I also don't want to interrupt too early.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's okay. It lets me get some water.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

For those who might be listening—and I know that they were, those who have been following you along, Mr. Perkins, and were I'm sure besotted with your speech about eels the other day—I do want to remind everyone who might be listening that we are right now debating the amendment by MP Blaikie—

[An hon. member]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but what's the point of order?

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

The point of order is just to remind that we are debating the amendment of Daniel Blaikie—

[An hon. member]

She already did that.

[An hon. member]

Which law are you relying on to make the point of order...?

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

—and the fact is that there is no question and we agree on our side that the Minister of Finance should be here before us to respond to federal budget 2023—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Mr. Chair, this is not a valid point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Dzerowicz, what's your point of order?

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I just wanted to make sure that was stated for the record, Mr. Chair.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

It's still not a valid point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Dzerowicz.

Again, MP Perkins, just to refocus again, we are on MP Blaikie's amendment to the motion:

That the Minister of Finance be invited to appear for two hours on the bill and that this appearance is scheduled on or before May 18th, 2023.

Go ahead, MP Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I understand from the member that her perspective is that there's no question, but there has been a question, and the question has been put that this same invitation was made to the minister three times in the last six months, and she has blown off this committee and not bothered to attend, which obviously then causes concern that the minister again will not attend on this particular issue.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Chatel, go ahead on a point of order.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If we're debating this motion, can we have the current status of the invitation to the DPM?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'll just check with the clerk on the status of the invitation to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance.

Do we have any information?