Evidence of meeting #94 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
I'm asking MP Genuis again.... You're one who always comes up with crosstalk—
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I will have a point of order later, as is my right, Chair. The rules protect the privilege of all members.
I know Mr. Ste-Marie had one first, and he's welcome to go ahead.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
MP Genuis, what I'm asking for is decorum and respect for your colleagues from all parties.
We are going to MP Ste-Marie.
Can you repeat that so that MP Lawrence and others, if their interpretation was not working, know what your point of order was?
2:20 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My point of order concerned my understanding of the standing orders. From what I had understood, the committee had to have unanimous consent of the members to continue during question period. What I understood from the clerk, through you, Mr. Chair, is that that's valid only for votes.
So since we'll be having two votes immediately after question period, without bells for 30 minutes, what is the chair going to do?
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you for that, MP Ste-Marie.
I'm going to allow the clerk to read into the record what the rule is when it comes to votes, which is what you're asking.
May 30th, 2023 / 2:20 p.m.
Jean-François Lafleur Legislative Clerk
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
According to Standing Order 115(5) unanimous consent is needed to continue with the votes.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
With the votes, yes, but not to continue right now through question period.
That's where we are, members.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order I'd like to raise.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for allowing me to raise a point of order.
My request to you has been simply that you follow the rules.
I would emphasize that decorum flows from rules. What decorum means is adherence to the rules of committee. If a chair is showing flagrant disregard for rules or favouritism among members allowing some members to raise points of order but not others, or cutting people off when they're raising matters of order, that is a violation of the rules, that is a violation of decorum, and that speaks to something fundamental about the health of our institutions.
That's the first matter of order I wanted to raise.
The second, Chair, is that there is an important difference between debate and matters of order. Matters of debate are on a substantive subject matter other than the rules. If I were to start speaking to the budget, to the financial measures in it, to comments about tax and so forth, that would obviously be debate. To raise concerns about the rules is a matter of the rules—
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
MP Genuis, what is your point of order? Get back to your point of order.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
As you're demonstrating, Chair, members have a right to raise points of order and shouldn't be interrupted when they're on matters of order, and that's what I'm trying to do, to raise a few points. You called it debate about 10 seconds into it.
That's the second point of order.
The third and fundamental point on which we started this conversation is the fact that question period is going on. It is a long-established convention of committees that they suspend or adjourn during question period so that members can fulfill their responsibilities as members of Parliament, which is to be engaged in question period, to ask or answer questions and to hear matters of the day.
I would ask that the committee suspend.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Finally, you have said that there is an agreement of whips on this. There is not an agreement of whips.
The Conservative Party, our whip, does not believe that committees should sit during question period without agreement, and there is no agreement. For you to tell the committee or imply to me that I should talk to my whip or.... Fundamentally, committees are masters of their own domain, but in this particular case, there was no agreement of whips. You have misled the committee about what the position of our whip is, or the whips are.
On these points, I think the committee should suspend.
I would like to move that the committee suspend.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
MP Genuis, you cannot do that.
What we are going to do now is allow for members to see if there is UC to vote on a suspension.
Members, do we have UC to vote on a suspension?
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I don't think you need UC to vote on a suspension, Chair.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I would say, Chair, even if a majority of this committee thinks we should sit through question period, just like if a majority of the committee thinks we should sit through the vote, the rules exist to protect minorities of members as well.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
That is not a point of order.
We will continue.
Shall clause 490 carry?
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Chair, I think there is unanimous consent to hold that vote.
I don't oppose holding that vote on the suspension.
2:25 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Okay.
The question is this: Shall we suspend?
(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)
It was defeated. We will move forward.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I have a point of order, Chair.
If five out of 11 members of this committee think we should suspend—
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
That was the vote. You believe in democracy, MP Genuis. That's democracy.