Finance Committee on June 15th, 2023

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I said it clearly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

But you do not have to scream, MP Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm sorry, but my point of order was not recognized.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

What is your point of order, MP Lawrence?

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I want to raise a point of order to ask for UC to suspend this debate until Tuesday. We have a mortgage crisis here in Canada and instead we're talking about childish games.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's not a point of order, MP Lawrence.

MP Chatel, you have the floor.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you. I'm going to continue, but I'll be brief because I want to move on to important topics too. I'm a bit fed up with this kind of attitude.

This committee has to work. It has been assigned some important matters and has important witnesses to hear, which it has been unable to do as a result of the Conservatives' filibustering. I want to work seriously, and I want to hear the witnesses.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

If you'll let me continue and stop interrupting, I'll be brief.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

There's an MP point of order from, I think, MP Morantz.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Yes.

Mr. Chair, I would like you to rule on whether or not Mr. Blaikie's motion is actually in order.

The reason I'm asking you to rule on this is that I have in front of me the House of Commons Procedure and Practice, chapter 20, “Committees”. It says the role of vice-chairs of committees is to serve as replacements presiding over meetings when the chair is unable to attend. All of the chair's powers can be delegated to the vice-chair, but the vice-chair cannot preside over a committee meeting while the office is vacant.

My point is that none of the arguments that Mr. Blaikie made in his presentation of the motion has anything to do with the only codified role of vice-chair—which is to fill in for you when you're unavailable—so I don't think the motion is in order because none of the points he made has anything to do with the actual role of a vice-chair.

I'd like you to make a ruling on whether or not Mr. Blaikie's motion is in order.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, on the same point of order, Mr. Morantz, of course, will know that I served notice of two motions on Tuesday, one orally at committee and the other one in writing. The one that I've moved simply says that Vice-Chair Hallan no longer has the confidence of the Standing Committee on Finance and, as a result, we should proceed immediately to the election of a new vice-chair from the official opposition.

I would politely disagree in that one of the main arguments I just made, if Mr. Morantz had been listening, was that, in order to fill in for the chair, the vice-chair cannot be absent, because there's no way, unless you're sitting at the committee table either in person or virtually, for them to step in for the chair if the chair needs to be relieved. That speaks exactly to the formal role of the vice-chair. Perhaps Mr. Morantz would like to tune in to the proceedings of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you MP Blaikie and MP Morantz.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Mr. Chair, on my point of order, I hope that the language around this table remains respectful. I do think that asking me if I'm tuned in or not is quite condescending.

In any event, the fact of the matter is that Mr. Hallan has replaced you on only one occasion, and he acquitted himself very well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Now we're getting into the debate, MP Morantz.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Just one second, let me just finish this one, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Be quick.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I have one quick, last point.

Mr. Blaikie knows all too well that, in the absence of the first vice-chair, there's a second and a third vice-chair who are capable of stepping in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Morantz.

We're suspending right now. I will confer with the clerk. I will get back to members.

We are suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Members, we are back.

I have conferred with the clerk. I am going to ask the clerk to explain to members if it is in order or not.

Clerk, if you can take the members through it, that would be great.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Alexandre Roger]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In Bosc and Gagnon's House of Commons Procedure and Practice, on page 1050, under “Vacancies”, it says, “Occasionally, vacancies arise in the office of Chair or Vice-Chair during a session. In fact, they arise automatically when an officer” and then there are various points. The last point says, “is removed from office by the committee.” Clearly, it's allowed in Procedure and Practice.

Then it goes into footnote 544, and it gives examples of when this has happened for the office of the chair. I have confirmed with the research unit at the committees directorate that this has never happened before. It would be a first-case scenario, although permitted by the book at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

It is in order. We are back to MP Chatel.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I'd like to challenge the ruling of the chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We have a point of order. There is a challenge.

Also, on points of order, members, when somebody is virtual, we'll have to have a bit of a pause to make sure that the interpretation is capturing that point of order. There was a lot of cross-chatter that was happening, and that was very difficult for the interpreters.

There is a challenge.

(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 6; nays 5)

We'll go back to MP Chatel.

The floor is yours.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

Before going any further, I'd like to verify whether we have unanimous consent to allow the Department of Finance representatives to return to their offices and do their work, which is very important for Canada. This motion doesn't concern them.

Thank you very much for coming to meet with us.