In terms of flow.
Evidence of meeting #15 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dfo.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #15 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dfo.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC
It's not changing the bottom of the river.
12:05 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Cheam First Nation
Except for very local changes. It creates a new channel where previously there might not have been a channel.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC
Let me change directions a bit. On the monitoring program that you have, you have your own monitors. I'm not quite clear on what their relationship is to the DFO monitors.
The other question is a general one of how that has worked. Do your monitors encounter violations of fishing regulations, either your own that you've set up or the DFO regulations? What do they do when they encounter people breaking the rules? I assume that must happen from time to time.
12:05 p.m.
Councillor, Cheam First Nation
In terms of the relationship between our staff and the DFO staff, they were brought together down there to carry out a monitoring program. The DFO staff were validators, but they were also doing other studies, like scale samples, weighing and measuring fish, and determining the species of fish or the races of sockeye that were going to different areas.
As far as encountering infractions goes, there were infractions on the part of some individuals. What the monitors do is contact our fishery coordinator and the council, and all we do is deliver the message to the violators that this is not part of our agreement and that we can't support them in that activity. If they were fishing outside an authorized fishery, we would deliver the information that we would not support them financially or legally if they were charged for that fishing. They would have to suffer the consequences.
And just in addition to that, this year I think there were only going to be three to five charges laid, whereas in the past there have been anywhere from 40 to 100 or even 150 charges laid on an annual basis for fishing infractions.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC
On the charges that were laid, did they happen because DFO monitors or officers just happened to be in the area at a particular time to observe violations, or did they happen because the Cheam monitors were involved in reporting to DFO?
12:05 p.m.
Councillor, Cheam First Nation
I can't answer that. I don't know.
I don't know how many charges will be laid for sure, but I know it's not very many. But they take time. I think the Department of Justice scrutinizes the information very carefully now, because usually we don't get much notification that we're to appear in court on fishery charges. If the alleged infractions occur in, say, July and August, we may not know if we have to attend court until October, November, December, or sometimes even later.
12:05 p.m.
Legal Counsel, Cheam First Nation
There may be a bit of talking at cross-purposes about the monitors. I can be corrected on this if I'm wrong, but the monitors don't really act as overall enforcement agents. They primarily function during the authorized openings. They are more landing monitors, because the openings—and I was corrected on this just this morning when we were doing a bit of preparation—don't say they can catch so many fish. They are openings that say there will be an opening from this hour to this hour, starting this day and continuing to this day.
The monitors aren't armed monitors. They're not peace officers. They're nothing like that. They're not expected to be out on the water patrolling for out-of-bounds fishing. Their role is really more in assisting DFO and creating parallel databases for the fish that are being landed during the authorized fishery.
It would be kind of surprising if the monitors were in fact having a role at out-of-bounds times, because that's not really their job. That's not what DFO expects them to do and that's not what they're paid to do. Chances are that they're at home in bed if something like that's going on.
The idea of the Cheam monitor is not to create a parallel police force or a parallel enforcement branch to DFO. It's more to assist in the scientific program that's ongoing to find out, look, if we have these openings this long with this kind of equipment, how many fish are being brought in? What is the catch per unit effort? It's that sort of role rather than being focused on whether some members decide to disobey the rules and fish at some other time, without the sanction of the council and without the sanction of DFO, and then going out and catching those individuals.
That's why I think we're talking a little bit at cross-purposes, because that's not really the role of the Cheam monitors as DFO or Cheam envisages them. The more important message that Cheam is going to send is that it's the message that's being sent to the community.
I'll tell you, they get a lot of political heat from the community. These folks are political actors just as you are, because they're saying to members that they're not guaranteeing to those members that they're going to be sending legal counsel to defend them if the play outside the rules.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Bill Matthews
Excuse me, but you're time is up now.
We'll go to the second round, which is five minutes, and we'll begin with Mr. Cuzner.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
I have two quick questions. Are the Cheam monitors on the band's payroll or are they part of a program that's jointly funded with DFO?
12:10 p.m.
Biologist, Cheam Fishing Authority, Cheam First Nation
They're on the band payroll. The DFO program is under the aboriginal fisheries strategy funding program of DFO. The band receives funds, but they're on the band payroll.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Is there's a structured reporting protocol that comes along with that?
12:10 p.m.
Biologist, Cheam Fishing Authority, Cheam First Nation
A supervisor and coordinator work for the band, and I'm asked to come in and review some of the information, assist in design...[Technical difficulties—Editor]...and scientific questions.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
12:10 p.m.
Biologist, Cheam Fishing Authority, Cheam First Nation
Last year was the second full year. There were some initial attempts the year before that.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
And how long was the partnership for? How long was the project for?
12:10 p.m.
Biologist, Cheam Fishing Authority, Cheam First Nation
These are done on an annual basis. They're on a year-by-year basis.
12:10 p.m.
Biologist, Cheam Fishing Authority, Cheam First Nation
We're just starting the process of that right now. There's a fishery under way right now for chum salmon. Once that's finished, then we'll be in a position to review the entire season's program.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Has there ever been an instance in which, if the fish stocks are in question, if the fish stocks drop, the band has imposed a moratorium? Is there any history of that happening in past years, even prior to the agreement?
12:10 p.m.
Councillor, Cheam First Nation
Yes. We didn't authorize a fishery for the Early Stuart sockeye this year. Our community didn't fish for their Early Stuart sockeye because the stocks were in jeopardy.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
So what you would have done was the assessment on the science you would have received from your own monitors and DFO, and the recommendation would have come forward and been fully complied with.
12:10 p.m.
Councillor, Cheam First Nation
I don't know if there were any infractions by individuals, but we didn't authorize a fishery.