Fisheries Committee on March 6th, 2008

[Gilles Gauthier]

He works in collaboration with all his cabinet colleagues.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

However, he is the one who takes responsibility.

[Gilles Gauthier]

Ultimately, Canada will sign the agreement if we find that it is in Canada's interest to do so. The ministers will make this decision in due time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Blais.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My colleague Mr. Kamp asked a question about the totality of this discussion. How many different issues are being discussed at this? You have fisheries; you have agriculture. How many other subjects are being discussed? Is it a variety?

[Gilles Gauthier]

Yes. Agriculture is one of the top ones. Then you have tariff negotiations on industrial goods, or on fisheries products as well, so you have a negotiating group on that. You have a negotiating group on rules; you have a negotiating group on trade and the environment; you have a negotiating group on trade facilitation, all the custom related matters; and you have a negotiating group on trade in services.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

So once all those discussions are done, at the end of the day, hopefully a consensus can be made, you sign off, and Bob's your uncle. That means there have to be trade-offs. You may not get everything you want in this particular area, but you have to weigh out the consequences--if we give this up, we get this, and there's a balance--right?

Although when you first spoke I was feeling better than I did the last time I saw you, I'm a bit concerned now, because the concern that I hear from fishermen is will they give up something in order to benefit another industry in Canada?

In these negotiations, there's give and take, back and forth. One of the concerns that the world countries have is our supply management system. They don't like it in agriculture. We do, but they don't. If we went out and said that under no circumstance will that be touched, and then they said, okay, Canada, but you have to give us something, could that be in the fishery?

I know it's presumptuous to say that, but that's how the negotiations go. There's give and take on both sides. Is it possible that we could sacrifice certain aspects of the fishery to benefit another industry?

[Gilles Gauthier]

I'm not aware of any country around the negotiating table that does not have sensitivities as well. The challenge of these negotiations is how to deal with the sensitivities that all countries have.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I know the challenge it would be to have to negotiate through the media. I can appreciate the difficulty.

One of the concerns of the fishing groups and first nations groups I've spoken to is that they're completely caught off guard by these negotiations. Is it not possible to have more of a consultative process for those who are most affected by these negotiations? At least let them know that Canada is going to these talks and will be talking about fisheries, farming, or something of that nature. Is it not possible to let them know in a more public nature that these discussions are happening, so people don't run off half-cocked and get kind of scared?

[John O'Neill]

Our first round of consultations on anything is always done interdepartmentally in the federal government. We go to provincial and territorial governments and industry associations. We don't go out to individuals.

On the DFAIT website have a negotiations web page that is available to any Canadian. We receive input from anyone who wants to provide it. But we go out to make sure that industries affected by negotiations are aware of them and have the opportunity to let us know their issues.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

That's industry, but I speak to groups like PEIFA, NFU, FFAW, and FFAWU, and they weren't consulted on these talks. Who in industry are you talking to? Is it the big guys? None of the aboriginal groups were consulted. I spoke to Phil Fontaine the other day, and they were completely caught off guard by this.

[John O'Neill]

We consult with DFO on aboriginal programs and the provinces.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Are those internal discussions?

[John O'Neill]

There are internal discussions in the federal government and with provincial and territorial governments.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

But they're not with the actual people themselves.

[John O'Neill]

We consult with the people who have the programs that could be at risk.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

That's my great fear, sir. You're going overseas to have negotiations that directly affect individuals' lives, and most of those individuals have not been consulted. Having discussions with other government leaders and major industry players is not what I would call consultations with the rank-and-file fishermen in these small communities, especially in Atlantic Canada, parts of northern Canada, and the west.

If the major unions representing fishing groups have not been consulted, why weren't they?

[John O'Neill]

I would have to check to see whether they were. I don't recall that. It could have been in the early days. I'm not sure whether unions in particular were consulted. I have a list of some 300 names of associations, etc., that were consulted on these rules of negotiation.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Can you supply us with that list?

[John O'Neill]

Sure. It's a mailing list.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

That would be great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.

Mr. Keddy, you're on.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

After listening to my NDP colleague, I'm trying to figure out where to start my line of questioning. I'm going to have to consult with a bunch of people before I ask.

I want to review a little of what we have learned here today. I'm extremely concerned that the NDP wants to have a first nations exemption and do away with the Marshall agreement in Nova Scotia. It for the first time allowed first nations into the fishery without increasing the effort because they bought up existing licences. So they're a legitimate part of the fishery based on conservation. If we go away from that we'll be getting into a serious problem here. It would be a serious problem everywhere.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

There is no point of order.