Fisheries Committee on Nov. 19th, 2007

[Cal Hegge]

I don't know.

Do you know if that comes out of the small craft harbours budget, or out of the federal contaminated sites action plan?

[Robert Bergeron]

Seventy percent is coming out of the contaminated sites, and 30% is from the small craft harbours budget.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

So 30% of the cost comes out of small craft harbour repairs.

I just hope there is pressure put on this issue. It's obviously a major requirement, because the figures are going to continue. Having been involved in the fishery and living in Prince Edward Island, I know that a $500,000 project becomes a $2 million or $3 million project pretty quickly. So if we don't get the extra funding.... This is a major priority for a major industry where we come from. I hope every effort is made by the department not to do much with the spending formula until we have input, and to make sure that the proper funding, or much more funding, is put in place, so we can do some of the maintenance required, because we will not have our harbour authorities if we don't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay. Stay tuned for an answer, because we're moving on to Mr. Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Good morning, gentlemen.

As you know, I am new. I have to become familiar with a considerable amount of information. In your projections, I would like to know if the amounts you have identified recognize that the harbours are going to deteriorate even faster if they are not dealt with immediately.

You also indicated that you took aboriginal harbours out of your estimates. Nunavut also was mentioned. I have an interest in the situation in Nunavik. Do you keep Nunavik harbours in the Quebec list or are they separate? I have observed that with global warming and the increase in navigation, coastal residents are becoming very worried. If there were an accident at sea, for example, they would have a difficult time rescuing the victims.

I heard at one point that in the Atlantic provinces, ACOA contributes to harbour improvement. In Quebec, we do not have that assistance available. Is there another program that could provide the small harbours in Quebec with the same support that the Atlantic provinces get?

[Cal Hegge]

To answer your first question about the rate of deterioration that we are going to face if we do not invest a lot more money, the percentage that is often used—and I look to my colleagues for confirmation—is 2% for every year of delay.

Several members of the committee have raised the matter of climate change. I do not think that we have really studied the consequences that small craft harbours may have to face. Am I right?

[Micheline Leduc]

We are actually starting to include this in our analyses, because it is real. There have been more storms in recent years. This is a direct result of climate change. In eastern Canada specifically, engineers are looking at the effects of climate change on our infrastructure. It is possible that we may eventually have to build higher structures because of changing tide levels. We are looking at that right now.

[Cal Hegge]

To answer your third question, there is an agency in Quebec that is responsible for economic development. It is called Canada Economic Development. We work with their representatives. We started discussions on divestiture with them two or three weeks ago.

[Robert Bergeron]

I just want to make one clarification. ACOA does not contribute to the repair or maintenance of small craft harbours. They may provide funding on occasion, but it is for new structures that support regional economic development. When ACOA has been asked to repair existing facilities, the reply has generally been no. I think that Canada Economic Development takes the same position. They are open to supporting projects that encourage economic development, but I do not think that they want to take the place of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, or the Small Craft Harbour Program by funding the maintenance or repair of our existing facilities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

Ms. Bell.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you. It's been a very interesting conversation.

In British Columbia we're going through treaty negotiations with a lot of aboriginal people who live on the west coast. Fishing is their lifeblood; it's part of their culture. I know that part of the treaty settlements in some cases will involve fish.

I wonder if any divestitures of the small craft harbours will be part of that, and if any of the money in here to repair the wharfs and facilities will be used as part of the treaty settlements.

[Cal Hegge]

As far as the treaty settlements go in relation to increased use of the harbours by first nations people, we know that's already starting to create some pressure on the capacity of the harbours. Eventually this will have to lead to some increased capacity, which will of course require some funds. But it really doesn't relate at all to the divesture program, because we're divesting of recreational harbours or non-core fishing harbours.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I guess I'm confused because it does talk about “The existence of a critical national network of harbours, in good working condition, capable of meeting the principal needs of the commercial fishing industry”.

[Cal Hegge]

On the usage of our core fishing harbours, the commercial fishing industry, the aquaculture industry, and first nations are the three pressure points we often refer to in terms of requiring increased capacity. So the interests of first nations are certainly part of that consideration.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

If it's so expensive and such a big job over a long period of time to upgrade the wharfs and facilities to be able to hand them off, what will the capacity of the harbour authorities be in the future, under a municipal or an independent organization, to maintain those facilities in a safe manner so they can be used for fishing and recreation?

[Cal Hegge]

Well, again, with time and with additional funding and working with the harbour authorities, we're trying to promote some consolidation within the harbour authority operations too, whereby they would form a group that would look after more than one or two small craft harbours. That's already starting to take place in various parts of the country. So we would be looking for efficient ways to manage the harbours through the harbour authorities.

But as I said earlier, they need some capacity-building and additional training and further work before we're going to get to that point. And the main point, of course, is to get the core fishing harbours up to a safe, reliable condition, because we can't encourage them to do much more with what they have to work with at the moment.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

So what will be the commitment of the federal government or of this department, or is there any commitment to the ongoing...?

[Cal Hegge]

The ongoing commitment we have is to continue to work in a good partnership arrangement with them. As I said earlier, both parties are aware that this partnership could be strengthened considerably by additional resources because they can only do so much, and we only have so much money to dedicate to the program. With some influx of funding, everybody is going to gain and the partnership will strengthen and they will become even more effective in managing the harbours. But right now we can't simply say, “We can't do this job; you take it over” because that would obviously not be fair, and we wouldn't do that.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Seven seconds.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

You mentioned EDC and that they aren't willing to commit funding.

[Cal Hegge]

They're showing a recent interest in working with us on divestiture of harbours. There are a number of harbours, as Monsieur Blais knows in particular, that are on the list for divestiture in Quebec. So they're willing to work with us in some partnership arrangement yet to be really defined. And we just started early discussions in that regard.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Okay. I'm done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Ms. Bell.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming. I appreciate your frankness and your good answers.

Let me just ask, if I have time, three somewhat unrelated, miscellaneous questions. I want to understand the structure, first of all. Is what we're talking about an entity called the small craft harbours program? Does it have a program designation?

And Mr. Bergeron, you're the director general of that. Does that make you the highest-ranking small craft harbours program person in the country?