Evidence of meeting #27 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was little.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Peter Llewellyn  Mayor of Georgetown
Bobby Jenkins  Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority
Gregory Norton  Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority
Norman Peters  Chairman, North Rustico Harbour Authority
Gérard Steele  Presenter, Naufrage Harbour Authority
Darrell Lesperance  Chairman, Naufrage Harbour Authority
Lewis Miller  Vice-President, Naufrage Harbour Authority

9:30 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

There's one other thing, Lawrence. This will take what Gregory was saying a little further. You were talking about money and about how the harbour authorities are set up and stuff. On two separate occasions, the Annandale fishermen backed the loan themselves at the CIBC--we're on record for that, with my signature, Harley's, and Gregory's--while waiting for money to come down the tube. We did eventually get the money, but we got the money from the bank, in order to go ahead with a couple of projects, on our own.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

So what you're telling me is that in your volunteer organization, you signed notes yourselves in order to make sure the harbour stayed.

9:35 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

That's right, and we can prove it; the CIBC will tell you that.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

Thank you very much.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

I understand we're joined by Mr. Bill Drost, the acting small craft harbours area chief.

Welcome, Bill. Certainly at any of our committee hearings we usually have someone from small craft harbours, so we're delighted you've joined us this morning.

Mr. Blais, the floor is yours for seven minutes.

April 16th, 2008 / 9:35 a.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, everyone. First of all, since I represent Gaspé and the Magdalen Islands, I'd like to thank Mr. Jenkins for his message of solidarity for what happened to the fishermen-hunters of the Magdalen Islands. Thank you very much.

The situation in the small craft harbours file is such that it's like they have a leaky roof that isn't being fixed. There is a risk it could collapse. We're at that point, and, in some cases, it's already collapsed. That's an unhappy observation. We could blame someone, the government and so on, but, as you mentioned earlier, there isn't enough money, people virtually everywhere are dissatisfied, and everyone is running around looking for funding. That causes a division of resources.

You know the principle: division is a good method for reigning better. You've suggested some solutions, like the inventory and a five- to 10-year plan. Those are indeed good solutions, but, when there's insufficient funding, you face the present problem. On the other hand, you, as port authorities, should present your real needs. The department can do its inventory, but it will do it in accordance with its way of seeing things. A breakwater may prevent repeated dredging, year after year. It's enough to extend a jetty for it to make all the difference relative to dredging, for example. That's what I observe in particular in the Magdalen Islands or in the Gaspé Peninsula. Moreover, in Quebec, a lot of money in next year's budget will be allocated to dredging, which makes no sense because all that could eventually be eliminated through other infrastructure work.

I'd like to hear what you have to say on one point in particular. We understand why you've had enough. It angers and upsets me too. I'm disappointed in the department and even in the government, regardless of the government in power, because the wharves are a federal responsibility. They belong to the federal government. When something belongs to us, we take care of it properly. In addition, the section of the Fisheries and Oceans Canada site that concerns the Small Craft Harbours Program tells us they're striving for safe and efficient use. That's not the case. There are a lot of examples like this one.

In that sense, couldn't the fact that the volunteers are fed up and exhausted eventually mean that the only way for you and others to meet the major funding challenge would be to protest more? When I talk about protest, I know that we can inform someone, increase his awareness, but, from the moment the department has the information and is aware of the problem, if things don't move, you have to shake them up.

Don't you think we've come to the point where we have to shake things up?

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

Do you want me to comment on that?

Yes, I would agree with an awful lot of what you said there. We probably have reached that point. Maybe we've gone beyond it in some cases.

When it comes to lobbying, fishermen are pretty good lobbyists. We can lobby pretty hard. But the problem is, as I mentioned in the brief, that a lot of the time the money is only around at election time. The money has to be there all the time, not just at election time. We'll do our part in presenting to the federal government what we need, but that money has to be there 24/7. It can't just be automatic or appear out of thin air because an election is called; it has to be there. That is where we've had the trouble down through the years. We've had to fight for the money.

9:40 a.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

And the time we spend on all that can't be spent on anything else. It's also tiring; it's exhausting. Lastly, in some cases, the department's solution is to put up fences on certain wharves because conditions aren't safe.

My opinion, which I repeat as often as possible, is that the wharf, or the infrastructure for fishermen, for a community like Georgetown, is more than a landing site. It's nothing more or less than the heart of the village. It's the heart of a community. A lot of things happen on a wharf. It isn't just landing: a lot of things happen there. Ultimately, there's a cultural flavour to all that; there's heritage. There can also be multiple uses: tourism, commerce, fishermen. It's all that and it's also a gathering place. In my opinion, when a village loses its wharf, it loses its heart.

I'd like to hear your comments on that subject.

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

I would agree wholeheartedly with that one. For an awful lot of the stuff that happens in our community—we take in three little communities, Annandale, Little Pond, Howe Bay—the centre of that is at the Annandale wharf a lot of the time. For two lobster suppers that are held there, the lobster are donated by the fishermen. It's a fundraising event for the Catholic Church and the United Church in that community, and it has been for an awfully long time. Everybody contributes. The thing is kept going by things like that. If that wharf were not there, both of those functions would cease to exist, in my opinion.

There are too many other things to mention here today that the wharf contributes to. But you are absolutely right, it is the heart and soul of those three communities.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning

Thank you, Mr. Blais.

Mr. Stoffer, for five minutes.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It's good to be back on Price Edward Island once again. Thanks for the nice weather. I'll bring the clubs up next time.

Gentlemen, approximately how many wharves, facilities, or harbour authorities are there on Prince Edward Island, that you are aware of--a ballpark figure?

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

There must be 75 to 100 there now. Pretty well every harbour we have has one.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Okay.

You said you look after three little communities. On Fogo Island, we heard of one group that looks after all five harbours. Is that similar on the Island as well, where, for example, the Annandale Harbour Authority looks after four or five different harbours at the same time?

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

What is the annual charge that you, as fishermen, pay to tie up at the Annandale harbour?

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

I'm glad you asked that question. That depends on what we're facing.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

The size of the boat as well?

9:40 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

No, we haven't done that yet. It's a flat fee of $350 per year right now. That has been doubled on different occasions, depending on how much money we have to raise to do various things.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

So it's not a charge per foot?

9:45 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

Not at our harbour at this time.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

For a product that is offloaded, is there a certain charge that the harbour authority gets? For example, in Newfoundland we heard that if they're offloading, a quarter of a cent per pound goes directly to the harbour authority.

9:45 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

We haven't done that yet.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Has it ever been taken into consideration?

9:45 a.m.

Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority

Bobby Jenkins

It has been discussed at some of our harbour authority meetings.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Thank you.

In terms of relationships with small craft harbours directorate--I know the guy is sitting behind us--we've heard that the relationships are very good with the people on the ground here, but the question is getting that message above them, as Lawrence said, into Ottawa.