Fisheries Committee on April 18th, 2008

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, but also, if I understand you correctly, it's going to again play a major role in creating development. I think you indicated that you hope to create some part-time and permanent jobs there. That's so important. That would go along with having a proper wharf infrastructure and the dollars in order to put this in place.

Could you just expand a bit more on that? It's of great interest to me.

[Gabriel Minville]

We're very comfortable because the investment has already started to pour in. The two facilities on either side of the river have already started to generate jobs. The refrigerated warehouse already has two locations: one is already operational and the other one will come on line in the upcoming weeks. This summer, there will be people there to welcome tourists. We want to refurbish both the interior and exterior parts of the site in order to attract as many tourists as possible.

We also have our tourist welcome centre which is all set to go; and it will be opening in June. There will be people working there this summer, too, and other organizations will come on board soon. It is a key sector for us, and we are going to develop it.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Now, you mentioned that you have a special designation. I missed what you meant about that special designation. Is it this building you're talking about, or is it in your town or community? What has the special designation? I understand you have to follow certain guidelines, is that correct?

[Gabriel Minville]

It is a major project called the Esdras-Minville project in honour of one of our builders.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Sir, is it only this project or is it the village itself or the whole thing?

[Gabriel Minville]

The small wharves are the focus of development. But the whole thing will be developed.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Very good. Merci.

[Gilbert Scantland]

Mr. MacAulay, there are a lot of places like Grande-Vallée in our region. For example, at the Anse-à-Beaufils fishing wharf, there's an old factory which is being turned into an entertainment centre and exhibition hall. There's even a bar and a restaurant.

The focal point is the wharf. Since our villages are coastal villages, the wharves have taken on a key strategic role when it comes to tourism development. The example that you have there is quite common in the Gaspé. By my calculations, there are about 10 locations where the wharf is the focal point as far as tourism is concerned.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Well, I fully agree with you, and of course you've indicated that not only here but in the Magdalen Islands the problem is safe harbour sites. I certainly agree with what you said.

Is there anybody else who would like to comment on any other development or anything else that would bring dollars in because of your wharf, other than the fishing aspect itself, which of course is of vital importance? This type of thing can work anywhere in Canada.

[Gabriel Minville]

There was something missing from my presentation. A pedestrian crosswalk will also link the two small wharves, as you can see on the model.

As far as funding is concerned, it would help us if the federal government would set up a specific program for infrastructure divestiture. Perhaps other ways of doing things could be flagged, for example involving other federal institutions such as Economic Development Canada or Canadian Heritage, alongside Fisheries and Oceans.

We're willing to take a look at such a formula and to work with other players. As I said earlier, our project is undoubtedly going to go ahead, but we do need federal government assistance.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I would hope and expect that Heritage Canada could be very much involved too, and hopefully they will be, because you've put a lot of work into this, and you have a project that would be of great interest to me and to other people across the country.

If anybody else wants to ask a question....

We've been at this all week, and we've visited a lot of wharves, and we've listened to a lot of groups. You people are town councillors, but what seems to be the problem is that over a lot of years the federal government has done what it could do, but it has not done what it needs to do in order to get your wharves into better shape.

Do you believe--and I'm not sure if you are the people I should be asking--these harbour authorities...? Are any of you on harbour authorities, or do you all have harbour authorities, or what? Do you feel there's a big difference now? Is it better or worse than when the harbour authority was put in place? Do you feel that possibly there's not a long-term business plan type of agenda for you that you and the federal government can deal with? Is that what you want? If you do, what type of a deal do you think should be involved in the long-term planning? Yes, you need the dollars, but is there any other aspect of the plan that needs...?

I don't believe there are enough dollars to fix every wharf next year, no matter what government. We all can play that. But what would you like to see happen in say the next five years? What can you tell us that we could try to convince government to do? Of course I think there need to be more dollars, but there have to be other things too.

[Georges Mamelonet, Mayor, Ville de Percé]

Yes, Mr. MacAulay, I could answer that question quite briefly.

I think the main problem we have here is continuity in the way the federal government is doing the maintenance and all the jobs around the wharves. We have all been talking about changes that have been happening in the fishery business through the years and the appearance of tourism business that is coming down. So we're trying to inspire our fonctionnaires in the federal government to go that way, that we could work together, and not just DFO, to take care of the wharves.

DFO is a small part of many of our wharves, and we have an example here in Grande-Vallée. We have the main example in Percé. We had six wharves before, and we now have three left. Two of them are mainly used for tourists. There is still some fishery activity around these wharves, but they are mainly for tourists.

These wharves are the property of the federal government, and I think the main thing that could be done would be to bring in Tourism Canada and Heritage Canada regarding the history of these wharves and what these wharves have created in our communities, as well as in the community of Mr. Fabian Manning. I heard that he has about 67 of these wharves in his area. So I think it could be done, and it would be a way of solving something, and perhaps bringing more concerns about the federal government and not just DFO. That's the main problem we have now.

Regarding our port administration, these people have been doing a wonderful job for years. They have been doing so many things that DFO could not have done without this administration. But again, these people are now on tight budgets that come only from DFO, with nothing else coming from anywhere else. More than that, perhaps graver than that, when DFO is investing in a wharf, if there is too much tourism activity, they can't make the investment, and it doesn't get done. So the fisheries can't get the part they need.

Do you understand what I mean? I'm trying to talk in English, but I'm not used to talking English.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes. You're doing well. I wish I could talk French as well.

[Georges Mamelonet]

Thank you. I think that way it could be....

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

In fact, more agencies could be involved.

[Georges Mamelonet]

Exactly. More ministries and agencies in the federal government could be involved.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

Mr. Blais.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. Claude wanted to speak to one of the questions Lawrence asked. Perhaps we could give him an opportunity to do so.

[Claude Cyr, Prefect, Regional Municipality County of Rocher-Percé]

Basically, my primary concern is the survival of the harbour authorities.

The Harbour Authorities Program was implemented in Quebec 18 years ago. Its purpose is to meet specific objectives including the daily management and maintenance of commercial fishing wharves by not-for-profit local entities. This is a key objective, as is training locals. And it is true that if the locals don't look after this, it's not going to go anywhere. The harbour authority model recognizes that local communities are the best placed to make decisions and provide front-line services. In conclusion, local management is seen as an effective way of providing services to strengthen both public and private investment.

What we want—and every region undoubtedly wants the same thing—is for the department to play a greater financial role. What do you intend to do should the harbour authorities step aside? These people are exhausted, at their wits' end, and they're lacking resources. If they were to step aside, we'll have serious problems. If these people give up, what are you going to do? What is your alternative solution?

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Now, I'd like to apply the proverb "Give the devil his due", by giving the floor to François, who's the mayor of Gaspé. I've had the opportunity to say these things on several occasions to my colleagues, but I think it's important for you to be able to say these things yourself. And I'm talking about what communities consider essential when it comes to their wharves.

The volunteers are completely fed up. The department needs to take this threat very seriously, because it's an ultimatum. I can tell you that people don't take such steps lightheartedly. They derive no pleasure out of it, they don't want to make threats, and they certainly don't want to have everything done overnight only to complain that nothing has been done. Without the authorities, there will be no more wharves. The department is going to be left with nothing, and be in the same situation it was in 20 years ago.

I'd like François to talk about how important the wharf infrastructure is and the development opportunities.

[François Roussy, Mayor, Ville de Gaspé]

The Gaspé is a maritime region where the wharf is both the heart and focal point safeguarding the vitality of our communities. My colleagues mentioned this earlier, and you are all cognizant of this fact after having listened to the witnesses that appeared before us. Unfortunately, as a result of the crises in the fishing sector the infrastructure has been more or less left by the wayside. And I like what the mayor of Grande-Vallée had to say about this. You could just picture how the federal government is going to suffer because of the way this infrastructure has been completely abandoned. You just have to take a look at the front page of the Graffici newspaper. The words "wharf closed" are superimposed on the national flag. Our wharves are the federal government's responsibility and this image is really very sad.

In response to Mr. Blais' question, I would agree that in our maritime coastal region, the wharves are the very heart and soul of the community. I really think it's in the federal government's best interest to revitalize this infrastructure so that communities can benefit from the economic development that will ensue. You are probably aware that despite the fact that the situation is continuing to improve in the Gaspé and Magdalen Islands, we have been through some tough times. We need this infrastructure to guarantee economic development whether it be in the fishery sector or—and this is becoming more and more apparent—in the tourism sector.

I have a seven-year-old little boy and I hope that when he is an adult, this infrastructure will once again be available. I'd like him to know where we come from and how we've successfully developed thanks to this infrastructure which was built with our grandparents' and great-grandparents' money. They have worked very hard. Some of my family members have told me how disappointed they are to see how little has come of all the effort they've gone to. They mobilized to build wharves and infrastructure for their community, but they're now noticing that no one really seems to care about their future. And this is why I think that we would benefit if we joined forces in addressing this.

I'll defer to your wisdom, since you are the ones who, over the past couple of days, have heard testimony from people whose livelihood depends on this infrastructure. So, I'd like to turn the question around, and ask you, Mr. Chairman, what first step you would like to see the government take with a view to upgrading and maintaining our infrastructure. Tell us what this message would be so that we can pass it on to the people in our community and get behind you. We submitted an initial report to the federal government, but unfortunately, we did not get a response. This is not a partisan matter, but we've asked for ongoing investment to support us, and we did not get the response we wished for. You've already done a lot of work. Is what's being presented to you today going to lead to any results? What is the top priority, so that we can get behind you, tackle these challenges together, and all be winners at the end of the day?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I'll take a minute and then I'll give it back to you, Mr. Blais. I usually don't get involved in the questions, but I will in this case.

Our preliminary studies tell us that for the federal government to bring the wharves and marine infrastructure in Canada up to a standard where they could be used across the country, we would need about a $400 million investment very quickly. I think we would be dreaming in technicolor if we thought that was going to happen overnight. The process we're involved in now is to try to enhance the present budget, which sits at just a little over $100 million this year. That is not meeting the needs that are out there. I think we all agree with that on all political sides, and that's the reason the committee felt that it was important to conduct this study.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

You have two seconds.

[Voices]

Oh, oh.