Evidence of meeting #41 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michaela Huard  Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Micheline Leduc  Director General, Small Craft Harbour, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

We'll call this meeting to order.

I apologize for my tardiness. It's House duty day.

I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome our guests this afternoon. Thank you very much for appearing before the committee. We've had small craft harbours on our minds for some time, and we look forward to your comments today.

I'm sure you understand that with committee business there are certain time constraints around presentations from our guests. Those same time constraints apply to our members as far as questions and answers go.

You will hear a beeping noise up here. That's the timer. It will go off on a ten-minute basis. That's what we generally allow for presentations from our guests. I'd ask you to try to adhere as closely as possible to those timeframes so we can get in as many questions and answers as possible.

Generally we don't cut our guests off. However, if you do hear the beeping noise, I'd appreciate it if you could start to bring your remarks around.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

And we won't cut off the clerk.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Yes, we cut off the clerk....

I don't know what that meant, but I appreciate your comments, as always, Mr. Byrne.

So I'll let you begin your presentation. Perhaps you would start by introducing yourself and your associate.

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Michaela Huard Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, good afternoon.

I would like to thank the committee for the invitation to appear today and for your ongoing interest in the Small Craft Harbours Program, a nationwide program which both the committee and the Department recognize as being very important to the ongoing success of Canada's commercial fishing industry.

It is equally important to the many communities and broader interests that are supported by DFO harbours.

My name is Michaela Huard.

As you know, this is not my first appearance before you. It is, however, the first time I appear as assistant deputy minister for infrastructure and information management, and thus responsible for the small craft harbours program.

With me today is Micheline Leduc. She's the director general of small craft harbours. She also has appeared before the committee.

I intend to keep today's opening remarks quite brief by touching on the most important developments affecting the program since we last appeared before the committee in November 2007.

I am pleased to report that these developments have resulted in increased resources and have been positive for the program.

Budget 2008 contained two funding initiatives for small craft harbours. The first was the provision of a four-year, $45 million initiative to accelerate the divestiture of recreational and non-core commercial fishing harbours. This important funding allows the department to more quickly arrange for the necessary repairs and maintenance to harbours before transferring to their home communities.

Upon transfer of ownership, these harbour facilities can continue to serve marine-based users by providing the home community with an opportunity to expand local services. Transferring ownership also allows communities more flexibility in integrating the facilities into larger community development plans and partnerships. As we near the completion of the second year of this initiative, I can report that the work is progressing well and that 13 harbours have been divested so far, with the bulk of divestitures planned to occur in the third and fourth years of the initiative.

Over the four-year period, we anticipate that approximately 75 to 95 harbours will be transferred to local communities across the country. There are several important variables in successfully transferring ownership of these harbours. They include cost, size, aboriginal land claim considerations, and perhaps even more importantly, successfully concluding agreements with local communities. Consequently, we cannot be more precise in estimating the final numbers. This accelerated divestiture effort is certainly being welcomed by the communities concerned and will relieve some financial pressures on the program in the longer term.

The second funding item from budget 2008 was that for construction of the first small craft commercial fishing harbour in Nunavut, located in Pangnirtung on Baffin Island. This community of approximately 1,300 people currently has a healthy local fishery and an existing fish-processing plant. Nunavut has repeatedly made the case that this infrastructure is critically needed to allow communities to expand their near and mid-shore commercial fisheries to their economic benefit.

Our harbour plans will directly support the interests of the local fishery, further the Government of Nunavut's development plans for this renewable resource, and be an important asset to support broader community transportation needs. The completion of the harbour is scheduled for 2011-12, and we expect the harbour will be fully operational and under the management of a local harbour authority in the summer of 2012. This is a large and important harbour project. It's our first construction project in the Arctic. It comes with special challenges of mobilizing supplies and equipment to the community by limited sealift. It is also complicated by the fact that we must work with a very short construction season and build a harbour capable of dealing with severe ice and weather conditions and very substantial tidal ranges.

In addition to the approximately $11 million in capital funding for the project at Pangnirtung, the budget also provided for ancillary funding for hydrographic charting and aids to navigation to support the harbour development. As part of a broader initiative, budget 2008 also provided additional departmental resources to bolster our efforts in science and fisheries resource management to support Nunavut's interest in further developing the emerging fisheries in the territory. This broad initiative was funded as part of the government's northern strategy efforts.

More recently, the small craft harbours program has also been identified as a significant contributor to the government's interest in providing economic stimulus through Canada's economic action plan, budget 2009. This budget provided an additional $17 million over two years to accelerate the harbour construction at Pangnirtung. The harbour will have two important benefits for the community. It will provide an infrastructure base for the long-term sustainable growth of regional fisheries and will provide local employment during the harbour construction period.

A larger element of the economic stimulus funding provided to DFO in budget 2009 was an investment of $200 million over a two-year period to fund repairs and maintenance at core commercial fishing harbours. These funds will enable the program to undertake more than 250 priority projects at some 225 core fishing harbours across the country. This work creates immediate local jobs, and improved harbours help to ensure that those who depend on the fisheries will have improved infrastructure for years to come.

The program's success in implementing the first year's plan has been such that we are seeking approvals to move forward $20 million of 2010-11 funding into this year's budget so that additional projects can be undertaken as quickly as possible this year. I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the considerable help that has been provided to us since the beginning of the year by such groups as Public Works and Government Services Canada, our own local harbour authorities, and the consulting and construction sectors generally. Without their cooperation and support, our success in implementing the stimulus works just wouldn't be possible.

I really would be remiss if I didn't say the same appreciation should be extended to our own small craft harbours personnel, who have been absolutely tireless in their efforts to plan and deliver these important projects in a very short time. The overall effort has really been remarkable.

The infusion of this $200 million investment in core fishing harbours, together with our regular maintenance and repair budget of approximately $73 million per year, will assist in addressing the most pressing but growing backlog of repairs to small craft harbour facilities. At present our efforts are focused on meeting the economic action plan deliverables. Improvements to the conditions of our facilities will also have the effect of reducing some pressures on those volunteer harbour authorities, which have benefited from this new investment. The department's 2008 decision to augment the program staff levels has also resulted in our ability to increase the number of staff dedicated to providing business support to the harbour authorities. This measure, together with an annual investment of $500,000 for training and other advisory services, has been helpful, but there continues to be some concern as to the long-term sustainability of our volunteer base and the ability of harbour authorities to meet their critical responsibilities for our core harbours.

Overall, our harbour clients are very pleased with the recent additional investment in our harbours. They do recognize that these funds will help address many of the most pressing repairs, but not all harbours will benefit. As previously mentioned, we planned to undertake more than 250 projects at some 225 harbours. This means that some of the most pressing work will occur at approximately one-third of our core fishing harbours. This is certainly helpful, as we move forward with the assistance of our departmental colleagues in the fisheries resource management section of the department to update our long-term infrastructure planning, to meet the industry's evolving harbour service needs and help support broader community interests where possible.

Thank you again, Mr. Chair, for this opportunity to appear before the committee. I and my colleagues will be pleased to try and answer Members' questions.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you very much.

Mr. Byrne.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

We are ready to go. All right.

Thank you very much to our witnesses, and thank you again. It is recognized that this is not the first time you have appeared before the committee, and we appreciate it.

Michaela, you mentioned that in the economic action plan there are some things related to small craft harbours. Is this a government report or a Conservative Party of Canada report?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Michaela Huard

I can't see it from there, but there is a Government of Canada report.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

So anything in here you are responsible for in terms of the information, not the Conservative Party of Canada, I take it, as to dealing with small craft harbours.

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Michaela Huard

With respect to small craft harbours.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

One of the projects highlighted was a project in Goose Cove, Newfoundland and Labrador. It says that $1.25 million was spent on a particular project there, and it was highlighted specifically in Canada's economic action plan. Yet for the project itself, the contract was let to a contractor by the name of Bing Pelley Ltd. It was valued at $700,000, which is not $1.25 million. What happened to the other half-million plus?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Michaela Huard

I don't know if my colleague has more details on the specific projects. There are 250 projects that we have through this--

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

But only one is highlighted in this book.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Michaela Huard

Yes, and there are 230 under way, I might note.

There is money spent in the engineering and the development of specifications before construction actually begins. Sometimes there is more difficult work that's required, whether it is geo-technical work or other things required before construction can begin. I would have to look into the specifics of that particular case to tell you, but I expect it is the result of that. There may be further work, some other element to the project that's required further.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

You are pretty confident—this is the only small craft harbour project, really, that's highlighted for Newfoundland and Labrador in this book—that indeed the total cost at the end of the day will be $1.25 million or thereabouts, within probably $10,000 to $50,000, no more than that.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Michaela Huard

These are estimates as to what the projects are likely to cost. As we go to tender sometimes we're happy to see the costs are going to be slightly less or substantially less even. Sometimes they are more.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

The tender for this particular project was done in September 2008.

Mr. Kennedy, you might be able to provide some information. This book was published in January or February 2009. That tender was out in September 2008. Really what I am wondering is could the people of Goose Cove and the harbour authority there expect $1.25 million, or really, that cheque that was cut actually should be discounted by 45%?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Michaela Huard

No, I don't think that's the case. I think they can expect that the work that we announced that we would be doing, the work that we anticipated doing, that we worked on with the harbour authority to undertake—if there is one there, and I couldn't tell you specifically—will be done. And we expect it will cost in that order of magnitude. All of the projects for the two years of the economic action plan have been announced. So we are dealing with estimates in many cases.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Given the fact the contract was indeed awarded in the fall of 2008 and this book didn't come out till.... We know that the exact moment the contract is awarded, it's awarded. So we know what the contracts will cost. This book here, which was published in 2009, says it was $1.25 million. That's a difference of 45%. That being the case, I wonder what other projects need to have a certain amount of scrutiny by this committee.

Let me go on to another question. The small craft harbour regions in Canada have been noticing a certain amount of money. There's a normal pattern of funding that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, the small craft harbour section, provides to the various regions' small craft harbour offices throughout Canada. For example, in Newfoundland and Labrador region, it's about 28%.

Will you commit to the committee today that there is no objective or plan to change the normal distribution of funding?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Michaela Huard

Do you mean with respect to the economic action plan?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

No, the overall funding envelope for small craft harbours. It's been a long-standing process, a long-standing objective here, to make sure that each region has a transparent and easily budgeted figure so they know what they're getting. In the case of the Newfoundland and Labrador region, for example, they are getting approximately 28% of the overall small craft harbour budget.

Are there plans within the department to change that percentage or distribution?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Michaela Huard

No, I don't believe there are plans to change the percentage. It's stayed relatively stable. I couldn't speak to how many years it's been stable, but I know it has been relatively stable. I know it continues to be stable. I certainly have no plans to change it. I think from time to time, we do hear from our colleagues that they have particular pressures, but overall the formula has—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Exactly.

I'm going to pass my time over to my colleague, Mr. MacAulay.

We look forward to finding out where that other $500,000-plus is going in Goose Cove.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

I just want to follow up on my colleague's question. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Is it then true that there's actually a project in the economic action plan update that was approved before the economic action plan was started? How could it be put out to tender in September 2008?

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Information Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Michaela Huard

Did you say it was put out to tender in September 2008?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

That's correct, because the money was not even asked for until January 2009.