Fisheries Committee on May 5th, 2010

[Michaela Huard]

Mr. Chair, I believe we have replied. I'll have to go back and check, but I take a lot of effort in making sure that our replies are complete.

I believe we could probably make that release—what the projects are—but I would have to check and confirm that and get back to you, Mr. Chair.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

COSEWIC recently announced that its recommendation was to place Atlantic cod on the endangered species list. Members of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans sit on the advisory process within COSEWIC. Is it the position of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans that Atlantic cod should be placed on the endangered species list?

[David Bevan]

I would point out that the comments received were from members of the committee. We have people on the committee. They are not representing the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. They are there with respect to their own individual expertise and bringing that to the committee.

We have not yet received a report from the committee, nor will we receive a report until later in the fall. At that point, we'll have the advice from COSEWIC, and we will then determine what the position of the department and the government is at that point in time. But certainly we don't have anything officially to respond to at this point, so we have not formed an opinion.

As I said, the members of the department who are on the committee are not representing the departmental view. They are there to provide expertise to the committee.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

In terms of a stock rebuilding plan, which is a pretty fundamental or pretty important stage in all of this process, is there a credible plan in place that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans has recognized to put in place? And where's the funding for it?

[David Bevan]

We have funds to implement species at risk. We have gone through a process as a result of the previous listing process, or advice, from COSEWIC to look at cod rebuilding plans. We have seen some success in some areas and, certainly, none in other areas. We have continuous challenges in terms of very high natural mortalities in the southern gulf, for example, in the Scotian Shelf, and in the northern gulf. There have been a little bit more positive signs, but just preliminary, on the northern cod. But we'll have to review those rebuilding plans once we receive the COSEWIC advice in an official forum and determine what the response of the government will be.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Under these main estimates, what exactly is the funding you anticipate or have targeted for the Atlantic cod rebuilding plan? On the question of natural predation that you've alluded to in the southern gulf in particular, is it your understanding or view that it is that four-letter word s-e-a-l that actually causes a lot of that predation?

Because COSEWIC was rather absent in describing that; they specifically recognized that predation was a major influence in cod stock decline, but they did not, in their brief discussions, actually indicate where the predation came from.

So there are two questions. What exactly is the funding for the cod recovery plan? And does the Department of Fisheries and Oceans feel that seals are the major predatory element or a major predatory element in causing their extirpation?

[David Bevan]

We obviously have a budget for species at risk--

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Which is...?

[David Bevan]

I'll turn to my colleague to give you the number. That is going to be used as a catalyst for funding.

We also, obviously, have fish plans. We have enforcement. We have a number of ongoing activities that are related to conservation of populations of fish and preservation of the marine ecosystem. So those are already spent, but we do have money to use as a catalyst for development of the recovery plans and to help with additional activities as required.

It's not targeted towards a particular species. That comes through the whole process of determining what the actual recovery plan would be.

With respect to your question on seals, there is a growing scientific consensus that in the southern gulf in particular the very high natural mortality is contributed to by the presence of grey seals.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Grey seals? What about activities from harp seals? Are there any scientific conclusions that could be reached within the Department of Fisheries and Oceans on harp seal predation?

[David Bevan]

With respect to the southern gulf cod, they're very transient in the southern gulf, as you can appreciate. They come down to whelp, and once that process is over, they all go north. It's of very short duration, that stay in the gulf. Our view is that the grey seal population is the more serious contributor to the natural mortality in the southern gulf.

I would point out that we do not have that same level of scientific consensus in other areas because of the fact that, for example, Scotian Shelf cod were depleted substantially, even in the absence of any groundfish fishing, over the course of the last 15 to 20 years. We didn't look at that question scientifically at the time when there were still enough cod to allow for some determination of the contribution of seals to their high mortality. But high mortality in that area was extreme.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Is the department still on track and fully prepared and able to meet its full objectives, as were stated at this committee, in terms of the transition from provincial to federal jurisdiction of the management of certain regulatory regimes for aquaculture in the B.C. area? Can you report to this committee as to the staffing will be done, it will all be in place.... We heard testimony earlier that everything was on track. Is it still on track?

[David Bevan]

It's still on track. The regulations are nearing completion and will be published shortly in the Canada Gazette. We have looked at program design and we have initiated some of the hiring and are looking at doing the rest, but we are on track to be up and running as of December 19, 2010.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Bevan.

As for your comment, Mr. Byrne, about a request from the committee, I've asked the clerk to review any outstanding requests that the committee might have made to the department and a follow-up will be made.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do believe that the request was made at the last main estimates meeting, where I specifically asked for the list of the projects sent up by the regions versus the projects that were actually finally approved.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I appreciate that, Mr. Byrne. I've asked the clerk to look into that, report back, and follow up. Thank you.

Monsieur Blais.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

My first question deals with the future. We are told that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans will be one of the departments targeted for a 5% cut in its overall budget.

Do you know if that 5% will come from the 2010-2011 budget, or from a regular budget, excluding amounts for economic stimulus measures related to the Coast Guard, and excluding the $200 million for small craft harbours? Clearly, if those amounts are removed, the 5% corresponds to a lot less than $100 million. If the overall budget is cut by less than $100 million, the impact will not be as great.

[Roch Huppé]

The target for the strategic review is based on our budget amount, excluding the funds allocated for the Economic Action Plan—in other words, excluding the $200 million.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

What about the money set aside for the Coast Guard?

[Roch Huppé]

The funding for the Coast Guard is also excluded; all those amounts are excluded.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Is there funding to address the crab crisis in the Atlantic region?

[David Bevan]

No. We have changed our policies with respect to crabbers. We are currently meeting with the provinces to talk about crab processing plant workers. There is no budget to address that crisis, because the situation is expected to improve soon—in 2012, we hope. So, the crab population should rise between now and then. It has happened in the past that the total catch was about 8,000 tons, which is pretty much what it was this year. Subsequently, the total catch rose to almost 30,000 tons. So we hope the same thing will happen this time around.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

As far as Fisheries and Oceans Canada is concerned, however, you are confirming that there is no departmental funding set aside to address the crisis in the crab fishery. However, some monies could be allocated by other departments, through ACOA or the Economic Development Agency of Canada, for example. Did I understand your answer correctly?

[David Bevan]

There is no budget at Fisheries and Oceans Canada to manage the crisis in the crab fishery.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I would like to move on now to talk about seals. I have information from Mr. Rodrigue Morin, Chief of the Marine Fish Section for the Southern Gulf of St. Lawrence at Fisheries and Oceans Canada. I suppose you know him quite well. According to his estimates of cod mortality in the southern gulf, 45% of adult cod die in ways other than cod fishing. Seals, and grey seals in particular, I imagine—although the type of seal is not identified, I believe we are talking about grey seals—are apparently the culprits. Can you confirm that?