Evidence of meeting #14 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was systems.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, School for Resource and Environmental Studies, Faculty of Management, Dalhousie University
In Canada, I can think of the Arctic char farm just outside of Truro. It's on the Millbrook reserve. As far as I know, it's in operation It was opened probably four or five years ago.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL
Should we be cautious about inferring similarities between char and salmon?
4:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, School for Resource and Environmental Studies, Faculty of Management, Dalhousie University
I'm not a fisheries biologist, but my understanding is--
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, School for Resource and Environmental Studies, Faculty of Management, Dalhousie University
I understand that. Our friends from the west coast are aware of some in southern B.C. I think there's a flow-through system there. I don't think it's a recirculating system.
As for char and salmon, the one reason people are growing char in recirculating systems is that you get a higher price, that's an example of a fish that you will get paid more for at the back end. The other thing about them, as I understand it, is that they tolerate much higher stocking densities. These animals will naturally tolerate being at 60 to 70 kilograms of biomass per cubic metre. You can imagine a cubic metre, and you can imagine 70 kilograms of biomass in there. Atlantic salmon aren't so happy doing that.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL
I have one final question. Then I'll pass it over to my colleague.
Could one reason it is in southern B.C. be access to hydroelectricity and the power grid? In northern B.C., the grid is not quite as accessible for supplying good clean hydroelectricity, is it?
4:10 p.m.
Associate Professor, School for Resource and Environmental Studies, Faculty of Management, Dalhousie University
You're absolutely right. One of the really interesting outputs of our work was that we realized how important location is. Location matters, if you're concerned about large-scale potential contributions. Location matters in terms of local ecological effects, but it also matters in terms of greenhouse gas emissions.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
I have a couple of questions, Peter.
Just to confirm what you said earlier and just so I understand, the carbon footprint from an enclosed system on land is bigger than the carbon footprint for the current aquaculture industry. I think that is what you said. I just wanted you to--
4:15 p.m.
Associate Professor, School for Resource and Environmental Studies, Faculty of Management, Dalhousie University
Sure. I derailed myself a little bit as I was going through my opening remarks.
Based on the data from the systems that were in operation or are currently in operation and that we were able to model, that is indeed the case, but it's underpinned by the level of technology that you bring to bear. The more technologies you use, the more power is required. It's also affected by where that power comes from, so if you build a system in Nova Scotia, you have higher greenhouse gas emissions for the same amount of electricity required than you would have if you built it in Quebec.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Okay. That gets me to a question my colleague just alluded to. Where in Canada are any of these flow-through systems? I know Ms. Berry mentioned there was one in British Colombia and I think one in Washington, if I'm correct. What size were those closed-pen systems you were referring to, Ms. Berry?
4:15 p.m.
Program Coordinator, Salmon Aquaculture, Georgia Strait Alliance, David Suzuki Foundation
There are actually two closed-pen systems in British Columbia. The operator of one of them, a flow-through in-ocean system, has just joined us. There is also one on the Lower Mainland in Agassiz, B.C., called Swift Aquaculture. It's a relatively small operation. I don't have the specifics, but Rob Walker has just joined us and possibly could let you know where his operation is.
4:15 p.m.
Director of Canadian Operations, AgriMarine Industries Inc.
I was about to say that I have a prepared statement for a little later, but we're operating in Middle Bay, near Campbell River, using a Future SEA technology, which is older technology. I believe you were talking about it earlier. Our intention is to launch our own solid-wall system later this year.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
So there are no large-scale pen systems in Canada that we can compare with?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Where did we get the economic analysis of it that was mentioned by Michelle, or the two economic analyses that had been done on that?
4:15 p.m.
Marine Researcher and Policy Analysis, David Suzuki Foundation
Those were projections. They took the costs of closed-containment facilities from other locations worldwide. They modelled it quite a bit on closed-containment systems with other species, and with the help of engineers and biologists made what they assumed were the necessary changes for salmon. However, there is no large-scale or commercial-scale salmon aquaculture facility here in Canada.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
My question is addressed to the videoconference participants. Recently, I saw a program on salmon aquaculture in Chile. I can tell you that when you see that, you have a lot of questions about what can be done well or poorly. In the case of Chile, you can see that things are being done very poorly because as in other areas unfortunately, the objective is quantity rather than quality. When that is the case, anything can happen.
You talked about enclosed tanks and open net pens in the ocean. I would like to know more about what was done in the Gaspé, the Quebec riding I represent, with land-based tanks. They were not in small, medium or large bays, but completely out of the water.
I would like you to tell us of the ways in which things can be done. I understand very well that whatever the type of salmon aquaculture one is practising, when you are doing this on a large scale, there are greater risks and a larger number of them. That is how I see things and I would like to hear what you have to say in this regard.
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, T. Buck Suzuki Environmental Foundation, David Suzuki Foundation
This is David Lane responding.
I would point out that these are the kinds of systems in general that we're talking about. They are land-based tanks. There are two things I'd point out. First of all, by coming onto land in closed-containment tank systems, you are able to avoid what could be major disasters if you have a net pen in the ocean. You mentioned Chile, where they had a huge die-off from disease. Disease comes from the wild. That's only possible with open-net pens.
If you are the operator of an open-net pen, a lot of problems can be created, such as disease and escapes. About 100,000 farm fish escaped from net pens in British Columbia in 2008. That's millions of dollars lost for the operators.
These things can be avoided by coming on land, and we believe that at a commercial scale, the technological problems and the economic problems will be resolved. We believe there is an opportunity here for a new kind of industry, not only on the B.C. west coast but across Canada, through using salmon in closed containment. It has been done with other species.
Salmon has a good market. Canada has a good reputation. The environmental benefits are clear, and we think there can be a real move ahead in a new positive direction with a sustainable industry.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Would someone from Vancouver like to express an opinion on this?
4:20 p.m.
Aquatic Habitat Specialist, Marine and Freshwater Conservation Program, David Suzuki Foundation
This is John Werring from the David Suzuki Foundation.
On that issue, we know that there are a range of different technologies. As Mr. Blais had indicated, there are tanks that have been put on land, out of the water. This causes a dynamic head; water has to be pumped from the sea into the tanks, so you do have pumping problems. To overcome that, some people who have put the tanks on land have put them in the ground, thus reducing the amount of head required to pump water up.
There are a whole range of different technologies that can be exploited; the problem is that there is no incentive being given for anybody to exploit or use those different technologies. There are too many excuses being made that it can't be done or that it's too costly or that there are things that can't happen, when in fact we know those technologies exist. We know they work for other species of fish, and there's no reason to believe that they can't work for Atlantic salmon. We simply need to try to get some kind of program in place in Canada that will enable people to experiment with those technologies and move forward at a much more rapid pace. As long as we just keep talking about it, it isn't going to happen.
Thank you.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
My question is addressed to our witness here in Ottawa. Of course, as nothing is ever simple in this life, we understand that the land-based tanks are not a miracle solution either. With enclosed tanks you have higher operational costs and diseases are also a possibility, because the environment is much more closed. If there is a change in temperature that causes a lot of problems. Indeed, this just happened in the riding I represent.
I wonder if the better solution in the case of farmed salmon would not be small quantities in small tanks. The bigger the tanks, the bigger the problems. Is that an accurate perspective, would you say?
