Evidence of meeting #5 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commission.
A recording is available from Parliament.
March 29th, 2010 / 3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Ladies and gentlemen, the first point I would like to clarify is the difference between your work and ours. We studied this issue already in 2005, and I hope that your team will examine our report. I think that the report would be a fairly valuable contribution to today's discussion.
When we examined this matter, we heard testimonies in committee and we went to Vancouver, where we met with witnesses. If I remember correctly, there was a run-related problem at that time as well. Among the various causes that we identified, one seemed very vague—I do not see it in the analysis—, that of poaching and trafficking.
I was wondering if you mean to consult our report as part of your mandate. Do you intend to do that? Is this possible explanation or cause already a source of concern or interest for you?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
Thank you, Mr. Blais.
I have read the report of this committee from 2004, and indeed the Department of Fisheries response to that report as well. Part of the terms of reference of the Cohen inquiry is to look at that report and the others that have been received by DFO over the years and to review how DFO has responded to their recommendations and to apply them to the sockeye in the Fraser.
The answer to your question is that I have read it. I can't comment on how the terms of that report have been brought into place by DFO, because I haven't seen a full analysis yet, but that is something that will be under consideration by Justice Cohen.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Could you provide us with some preliminary comments on this aspect of the issue or on the causes of poaching?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
The interim report from Justice Cohen will be the place where the preliminary comments on those recommendations and responses will be provided.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
I was reading the report you have provided us with, and I would like to thank you for it. It states that phase two will investigate and make findings on “[...] the causes for the decline of [...] including, but not limited to, the impact of environmental changes [...], marine environmental conditions, aquaculture, predators, diseases [...],” etc.
A set of possible causes has already been identified in the report, but there is no mention whatsoever of poaching. Do you talk about this issue somewhere or is it among the “other” causes we dare not identify? Is the subject perhaps taboo?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
At the moment, our scientific people are looking at that question. This has not been formulated yet, and I frankly don't recall whether there are more than the issues that are enumerated.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Do you concede that poaching could be one of the identifiable or identified causes? Yes? Maybe? No? You cannot...?
4 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
I really can't comment on where it might go. It could be all, or some, and there could be others.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
I do not want to pressure you. I do not wish to offend my Liberal friends, but I cannot help thinking about the Gomery Commission on the infamous sponsorship scandal, and I have a feeling that we have not solved all the problems, as we now have the Cohen Commission.
I think it is important to let you know that problems with salmon runs in the Fraser River are long standing. A report is to be published in May 2011, and I won't get into what is probably going to happen after that. I do not want us to cloud the issue, that is, to end up with a commission that examines and observes the situation, but ultimately does not eliminate the problem. That is what I am worried about.
When I think about the work you will do and the work that we could do, that we have already done, I wonder if there is possibly something else we could do to help you out in the coming months or years. That's all. It's not that you necessarily need our help, as you are perfectly capable of managing things on your own. However, I would like you to reassure me a little bit, or a lot, or not at all.
4 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
I don't think there's any reason for this committee to stop looking at the issues on the west coast and the Fraser River, and at sockeye in particular.
The terms of reference for the commission are very broad. It's looking at things beyond just the enumerated causes. This committee clearly has done some important and substantive work on this issue in the past, and that's something we will be looking at. It's specifically part of the mandate.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
I have one last question. Could you clarify the difference between your work and ours so I can understand it better?
4 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
It would be presumptuous of me to comment on your work, and I won't do that.
This commission has been given a very broad mandate. It has powers of subpoena, as a court does, so it has the resources and a mandate to do a very exhaustive inquiry here.
4 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much, Mr. Wallace and Ms. Tessaro, for coming out today. We appreciate you coming to the committee and answering some questions and presenting information.
I had a couple of questions.
You clarified some things for me at the beginning with your opening remarks. I just wanted to go back, because we've had a number of questions and comments in my office from the public, who are very interested in the inquiry, and keen to participate.
With that in mind, can people still participate through the website? Will that be ongoing, or is there a timeline in which they have to get their comments or their submissions in?
4 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
No, there certainly has been no timeline set at this stage. I anticipate that as we get near the end, we will have to draw the line, but I don't know when that is, and it won't be for some time yet.
There will be at least two ways in which any member of the public can offer his or her views and can comment on the views of others. One is through the website. As I said, that is up and running as of today, so one can go to the website, and make a comment on the home page. That will be reviewed by members of the staff to make sure the comments are appropriate and relevant. Aside from that, we will post them, and then others will have the opportunity to comment on those views.
We also anticipate that we will go to areas along the Fraser and along the coast where the Fraser River sockeye are important, and hold public meetings in those various areas. We'll invite comments from the public in those forums as well.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
Just to clarify, the window for granting standing is closed?
4:05 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
Yes, it is.
As a logistics matter it's important to know who is participating in a timely way, because participants have the opportunity to review the documents that have been produced by DFO and also by other participants. So there's an education process, which--if they're going to participate effectively in the formal evidentiary hearings--they need to start on. The deadline has passed for people to apply for standing and we have a very broad, as you can tell, cross-section of participants as a result.
Something I forgot to mention in my opening is that of the 49 original applicants, some 20 were first nations groups and organizations. So there's a very large interest in that community as well, and I anticipate that there'll be a large number of participants from that community.
But it is open to the commissioner to amend his rules. So if somebody had a compelling case to be added, there's a process whereby they could do that.
4:05 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
We have had some applications from individuals, so I wouldn't rule out anyone. The rule for standing under the terms of reference is that to be a participant, you must have a direct and substantial interest in the issues before the commissioner.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
That was the reason a number of people were contacting our office, asking what that means. Some individuals feel they do. Obviously organizations that work on fisheries matters do, first nations do. But individuals who have been doing work, maybe in a voluntary capacity for decades.... That's a concern, whether they would. But it sounds like if they don't get standing to provide evidence, they can at least make submissions to the website.
4:05 p.m.
Senior Commission Counsel, Cohen Commission
We intend to expose the submissions from the public in a way that they can be used safely by the commissioner in his decision-making. So they will be exposed to public scrutiny and anyone who's affected will have an opportunity to comment on them as well. We don't want this to be unfair to anybody. We encourage the public to get involved that way.
When the applications for participation have been determined, which I expect will be in the next week or two, individuals, in particular, may well find that there are organizations that have standing with which they are already involved, or with which they could become involved. They could perhaps use one of these parties that already has standing as a vehicle for becoming involved as well.
