Evidence of meeting #25 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishermen.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karen Crocker  Chair, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance
Brenda Patterson  Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

4:30 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

The jobs are a bit of a mugs game. Our community is employed by the lobster fishery. That is what drives our community. By taking away some of the most lucrative lobster fishing available, you're putting this community's jobs and their families at risk. It's almost like you're making a decision that we're going to choose open fin fish aquaculture in salmon over lobster. I'm sorry, Mr. Allen, but that's almost how you phrased your question.

It doesn't have to be either/or, because the lobster industry is now the most lucrative fishery in Canada. The federal government believes so as well. In fact, I believe it was promoted during the Prime Minister's recent trip to China. It's a hugely important fishery that should not be put at risk. The option does exist—

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Sorry, what I'm saying is that they have been able to coexist in New Brunswick. I'm just saying that it doesn't have to necessarily be an either/or.

4:30 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

I would suggest that's not the case in New Brunswick. Think of the size of what's going on in St. Mary's Bay—there is nothing like that anywhere in New Brunswick. There are no aquaculture leases in New Brunswick anywhere near the size of the one in St. Mary's Bay.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

What would you suggest if you were going to go on land? I have a large feeder system in my riding, Gray's Aqua. It is on land, but their pens are over in Newfoundland.

There was some testimony suggesting that it would take 10 years or more for us to be able to transition to a closed containment situation from our current open net. How would you suggest we manage that transition, if we were going to a closed containment, without putting at risk a significant amount of investment from our existing companies?

4:30 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

I'm not sure this is really within our purview or ability to answer, Mr. Allen.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you very much, Mr. Allen.

Mr. Easter.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

I didn't know I had another round, Mr. Chair. My, you're kind at this committee.

Just to come back to one of the questions Mr. Allen raised....

I've been on some of those operations in New Brunswick, too, Mike. They do create a lot of jobs, but I would caution us to think that there will be bays and areas where open-pen aquaculture may make sense and some others where it may not. St. Mary's Bay may be just one such place. I think the key question there is what the presenters, I think, were responding to. Do you put at risk the jobs that are in the lobster fishery and the spin-off jobs from that industry for part-time jobs—basically what you're saying are lower-paid, seasonal, part-time jobs—in the open-pen fishery in that bay? That seems to be what you're saying.

I come back to what I said before. I am shocked that somebody hasn't done the science here. I believe, Mr. Kamp, in the beginning you kind of indicated that we can't question the hearing process. I think the presenters basically are of the opinion that the hearing process wasn't balanced and wasn't fair.

I guess my question would be, how do you make that fair? This was the same problem 10 years ago when we were raising these questions with DFO. How do you get them to accept their responsibility in terms of policing and protecting the wild fishery?

Any comments?

4:35 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

I can comment on the first one. I think in terms of the environmental assessment, you'll probably have to look at a joint panel review. That's one way of doing it, because in that particular case communities are provided with resources. I think another situation, in fact, is there could be some basic steps that need to be taken by the federal and provincial governments, depending on jurisdiction, before a decision is made to actually put an aquaculture site in a particular location. One of the ones, as I mentioned earlier, was a proper baseline assessment.

Mr. Easter, if that was done, the process itself and the science involved with that would give everybody a real understanding as to exactly what the ecology is in a particular area, and therefore what the implications might be, including socio-economic. That would be very helpful.

The other side of it, in fact, is to have regulations that have teeth. People talk about costs—and I'm not bashing the private sector, because every one of our lobster fishermen is the private sector. The cost, for example, of doing a baseline assessment should be a cost of doing business for the company. As I indicated earlier, they paid $1,000 to take 200-plus acres of St. Mary's Bay away from the lobster fishermen. It's a cost of doing business, for most other businesses, for a proper baseline assessment to be undertaken. What are the implications of that business on the community? What's the implication on the environment? That's a normal course of business, but it doesn't occur, in fact, in the whole issue of approving leases or the work of the science around approving leases for open fin fish aquaculture. It's the same in terms of monitoring.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

You actually pay that amount of money in Prince Edward Island for one acre of mussel land lease on the water, Mr. Chair.

I'll just close by saying that I really think the committee needs to recommend that there needs to be the proper baseline assessment done before you start down this road in the first place.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you very much, Mr. Easter.

I'd like to take this opportunity, on behalf of the committee, to thank you today for appearing before our committee once again and taking the time to answer the questions the committee members have had. On behalf of the entire committee, I want to express our deep gratitude. Thank you.

4:35 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

Thank you for the opportunity.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Committee members, I've been advised that the notice of motion that was intended to be brought forward today will not be moved at this point in time. So there being no further business before this committee, the meeting is adjourned.