Fisheries Committee on Feb. 27th, 2012

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Mr. Leef's motion has quite succinctly stated the value of the matter, especially to northern and coastal communities.

To be frank, we brought this motion forward because we are concerned about some of the comments made by one of our committee members. We've been waiting for Mr. Cleary to be among us so that he would have a chance to weigh in on this and clarify his position. He hasn't been here, so we've had to have this debate without him. We think it's important for the parties in Parliament to be clear on where they stand. His comments raised some doubt in our mind, and a Liberal senator's comments have raised some doubts as well.

I think we've been unequivocal on our side. We felt it was necessary to have a very simple motion like this. I would still like Mr. Cleary to have an opportunity to speak to this. So I would like to propose an amendment to the motion replacing the period at the end with a comma and adding the words “and that this motion be reported to the House.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

To be clear, Mr. Kamp, you're seeking to amend the motion by only adding the words “and that this motion be reported to the House”?

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I just want to be clear on the amendment.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

For what it's worth, we normally refer to this committee as the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, not “of”. I could include that as an amendment as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Okay. Thank you.

The amendment brought forward by Mr. Kamp amends the motion of Mr. Leef by changing the word “of” in “the Standing Committee of Fisheries and Oceans” to “on” and, at the end of the motion, replacing the period with a comma and adding “and that this motion be reported to the House.”

On the amendment, we have Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I think what's put together is okay. It's something you cannot vote against, but it's got no guts at all. It's got nothing in it to add support and push to the government. I thought this committee would be in place in order to provide guidance to the government as to where we think they should go in the sealing industry. The fact is, we need the government to do more. It's great to say “I promote”, it's great to say “I provide”, but if you do not provide it's no good. That's the problem we have here.

It was said that this amendment could not be accepted because.... Sure, I won't vote against the motion, but it's worthless unless something is done. What we need to do is support the people out on the ice, the sealers, and we want the government to support the sealers. We're not doing it, and it's most unfortunate. We can play games and say we're going to do this and that, but the fact is this is a pretty serious issue. If the sealing industry collapses, it's going to affect an awful lot of fisheries on the east coast of this country.

I'm so disappointed that we have done absolutely nothing to obtain markets. I'm not blaming anybody, but what we have to do is urge the government to do these things if you want an industry. It's great to have an industry, but they have to sell the pelts. They're not doing it, and we're not asking them to do it. We're asking them for support. Sure, they support, but support without guts is no good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Anything further on the amendment?

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Just to be clear, this is a motion about this committee reaffirming its support. This committee has always supported the sealing industry. One of our members has raised a doubt, and frankly, I wanted it to be clear, as a member of this committee, that those comments didn't reflect a position, or a changing position of this committee.

Now, if this motion passes, it will be reported to the House and it may get moved—who knows—or have a concurrence debate. If it does, we will have an opportunity to raise whatever issues, as Mr. MacAulay said, in terms of advice to the government on how the support that this committee has indicated can go forward.

It's our position, of course, as will be pointed out in that, that we will happily itemize for Mr. MacAulay and any other members of the House the steps that the government has taken to advance new markets and so on. It's obviously not completely within the control of governments to open markets, but certainly we've make good efforts there and will continue to make those.

This is about this committee going on record to continue our historical support for the seal hunt.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Kamp.

Mr. Leef.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll try not to belabour this, but I think that was well said. I can appreciate Mr. MacAulay's position. I've certainly seen the value of strongly stated support, particularly in the trapping industry in the Yukon. I've watched that go up and down for years, and when the government stands behind something, it's not meaningless. It's not as strong as you want it, but I certainly don't think it's gutless or meaningless to acknowledge strong commitment to and support for an industry.

I know this is going just quickly back to the motion that you proposed, because you raised the question of it. Personally, I just found it had a negative connotation that, in my mind, could lead dangerously close to signalling that the end of the market is near to the people who would celebrate its end. I think that's dangerous. We want to be signalling the growth or the continuation of the market, not using terms like “government's inability" and at the end, “before this industry is permanently lost". When we start putting that language into additional motions, I think that gives people who are looking forward to that day coming hope that it could. I would move away from any kind of language in any motion that signalled that.

Back to the addition, I certainly don't have any concern with the addition “and that this motion be reported to the House”, because I think that adds a strong signal to what we're trying to do, which is to show that we don't see the end of this market anywhere on the horizon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Leef.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

This has been a very cordial committee. It's worked well. I want it to stay that way. If it would ever help, I'd take the last few words out, but that would not help. The fact is that what we're saying on this amendment is that we're going to increase the efforts to protect and promote. In my opinion, anybody who knows anything about the seal hunt and the sealing industry knows that we need to protect and promote, because it's in dire straits at the moment. If you want to ask anybody who is involved in the sealing industry—and in fact if you want to ask anybody involved in the fishery itself—how important this is, they'll tell you. The sealing industry is important to a certain group of people, but the seals are overpopulated. The fact is we need the seal hunt, we need the markets, and we need the government to push.

If we do not do it, we're going to hurt the fishing industry in Atlantic Canada, for sure. This needs to happen. If we do not have markets for our pelts, there'll be no seal hunt. They just can't go out for the good of the cause if they cannot sell the pelts. All I wanted to do was to give the government a push to see if we could somehow get markets. We have people excluding us from the seal markets that are involved in the seal hunt.

Anyhow, amen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Just to be clear for committee members, the amendment has been defeated.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

We're now debating a subamendment: “and that this motion be reported to the House”, just to be clear for committee members.

Mr. Donnelly, please go ahead.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to provide some clarity to Mr. Kamp's remarks. I just want to say that no NDP member of this committee has questioned the support for the sealing industry at any time at this table. I just wanted to provide that clarity.

In terms of the amendment, we have no problem supporting that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Anything further on the amendment?

(Amendment agreed to)

Now we will go back to the amended motion. Anything on the amended motion?

Mr. Allen, please go ahead.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Chair, thank you.

I didn't get a chance to say how good a chair you were before. I won't say it this time, either.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

A fellow from New Brunswick wouldn't expect anything different anyway.

I guess after we've had our constituency week, we're all filled with good nature here. I did hear Mr. MacAulay's comments, and I think there's a recognition that, as Mr. Kamp had put out, there has been a lot going on. I'd be prepared to make an amendment to the motion to reflect some of what Mr. MacAulay has said, and if he's open to it then maybe we'll have the best of all worlds here of what gets reported back to the house.

I would propose to add to the motion, just before the part we just added, which was “and that this motion be reported to the House”—this would be after “industry”.... It may be better if I read the whole thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Please do.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I would add to the initial motion from Mr. Leef:

That because the evidence demonstrates that the Canadian seal hunt is conducted humanely and sustainably, the committee reaffirms its support for the Canadian seal industry; and that, given the current state of the Canadian sealing industry, the committee calls on the government to continue its efforts to open new markets and to protect and promote the sealing industry on the international stage; and that this motion be reported to the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Could you just repeat that last part: “continue its efforts”?

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Yes: “...continue its efforts to open new markets and to protect and promote the sealing industry on the international stage; and that this motion be reported to the House.”