Fisheries Committee on Dec. 4th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

It's up to Mr. Chisholm.

Which one? The first one, Mr. Chisholm?

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Sure.

[Marc Grégoire]

I will ask Trevor to answer that.

[Trevor Swerdfager, Assistant Deputy Minister, Transformation and Program Policy Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thanks very much.

There are a number of questions within your question, so I will talk briefly about how the department approaches the management of aquaculture generally and in Nova Scotia in particular.

I think the first and the most overriding principle of our approach is that we're fundamentally committed to the protection of marine ecosystems and all the species within them. Certainly that's our abiding concern, whether it's in Nova Scotia or British Columbia or anywhere else in the country. We're very confident that aquaculture can be conducted in open net pen structures in a manner that is consistent with that objective.

That's not to say that it's a non-impact-oriented industry. It clearly needs to be regulated. It needs to be managed very closely and effectively. As you probably know, jurisdiction for aquaculture is shared in our country, particularly in Nova Scotia. There's a different regime in place in British Columbia, which we can talk about if one wishes. But in Nova Scotia the jurisdiction for the management of aquaculture is shared between the federal and provincial governments. The predominant element or the preponderance of the regulatory regime is provincial in Nova Scotia.

The province issues leases to individual farm operators that allow them to secure a particular plot, if you will, of the ocean. The first component of the regulatory regime is to determine where in the province aquaculture will be authorized. In addition to a lease, an operator requires a licence from the province, which is extremely detailed in nature. A whole series of environmental provisions and requirements must be obeyed by the operator.

We have worked with all provinces, including Nova Scotia, with respect to the content of some of those licence provisions: how they're structured, what the regulatory tools are, what the standards to be met are, etc.

At the same time, the federal government does have a role, both in terms of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, but more broadly within the Department of Transport and the Navigable Waters Protection Act. Other departments are involved as well; to some degree, Environment Canada is a player in the regulation of the aquaculture industry. Certainly from our perspective, we participate in the environmental assessments of all sites, in the sense of contributing science to the decision-making in both the provincial context and federally, and we work quite closely with the province to make sure that all sites that are considered are, at least from our vantage point, put in places that don't cause significant threat, not just to wild salmon, but to any wild species.

Obviously this is a topic that would require further discussion if we wanted to get into it in huge detail, but from our perspective, the strategy that the Government of Nova Scotia is advancing for that province for aquaculture is one that is prudent and is moving forward in due course. But it's not a rapid development approach; it's one that we're quite comfortable with and that we have worked with them on. We're confident that the regulatory regimes that both the province and ourselves manage are more than sufficient to effectively protect the ecosystems involved and to go forward with this sustainable industry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Swerdfager.

Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thank you.

I have a comment on something Mr. Chisholm said. The Cohen report ended in 2009; that was its mandate. In 2010, outside the mandate of the Cohen report in terms of time, a record 29 million sockeye salmon returned to the Fraser River, and net pen aquaculture had been going on since 1985 off the coast of B.C. That's something that needs to be put on the record.

I have a question. What is the value of commercial fishing in Canada? I just want a rough number.

[David Balfour]

Its value is in the order of $2 billion.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Two billion dollars? That's what I had heard.

What's the value of recreational fishing in Canada?

[David Balfour]

According to surveys, it's above $7 billion.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Above $7 billion? Okay.

Given that you are a fisheries agency, is there a balance between what you spend on commercial fishing versus recreational fishing, or are most of your expenditures on the commercial fishery?

[David Balfour]

Our expenditures are very much a function of the mandate and responsibilities of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Our main focus, of course, is on the management of coastal fisheries. For inland fisheries, the management responsibility has been delegated to inland provinces. For example, in the case of British Columbia, we do dedicate effort commensurate with the requirements of the fishery to the recreational title sport-fish fishery, which we license.

In the integrated planning approaches for, say, salmon or groundfish or shellfish, the recreational interests participate in the integrated governance decision-making with other users of the resources. Their interests are provided for in terms of resource allocation, the setting of TACs, management approaches, and so on. In terms of absolute financial expenditure, it is relatively less than it is for commercial or aboriginal fisheries, but it is commensurate with the responsibilities we have.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Except that DFO is more than able to conduct science in the freshwater fish areas, as well as fish enhancement, right? You could do that.

[David Balfour]

We do science in the freshwater area to some extent. My colleague is going to speak to that. But we are not doing enhancement work on inland species.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

But in cooperation with provincial jurisdictions and in cooperation with the hundreds of angling groups across the country, you could conceivably do partnership projects related to fish enhancement. I presume that's possible.

[David Balfour]

Yes, that's possible, and it certainly would be the direction that we would be headed in with respect to the implementation of the new fisheries protection program, which provides for our ability to enter into partnership arrangements for the development of fisheries resources, their enhancement, and their protection. It's certainly an area that we will be giving focus to in the future.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Okay. That's good, because I think the partnerships you have with the Atlantic Salmon Federation are quite significant, and, again, for the Restigouche, for example, I have been told that the fishery supports 300 full-time jobs. It has been described to me as like having another mill in the area there.

I would just recommend that the department.... I know you have a commercial fishing focus, but again, when you have the value of the recreational fishery and where it's at now, about 4 million participants in the recreational fishery across the country, and hundreds of communities and jobs that are supported by the recreational fishery, I would respectfully recommend that maybe you'd want to start looking at some of these expenditures.

In terms of the $10 million that you have listed to “support science and sustainable fisheries”, what's the breakdown between freshwater and saltwater work?

[Kevin Stringer, Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

That is in fact saltwater fisheries. Basically, that is what was called Larocque funding. It was funding that was provided to the department starting in 2007, following a court decision in 2006 that said we couldn't continue to do the agreements we had with the commercial fishermen themselves.

We had a number of arrangements to do science, in addition to our basic core foundational science, through a number of agreements. When the court said we didn't have the authority to do those, we had funds voted for it.

In our previous discussions at this committee, we've talked about section 10 of the new Fisheries Act, with the proposed amendments and the actual amendments to the Fisheries Act that will enable us to have those agreements going forward. This is the final year of that funding to replace those agreements that were in place before. So there were agreements—with fisheries organizations—to do additional science where some fish resource is set aside for the purpose of partnering with the department on additional science.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

In terms of the $7.5 million to protect wildlife species at risk—and I assume wildlife in this case means fish and aquatic species at risk—what activities are you undertaking there?

[David Balfour]

Under the Species at Risk Act, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans is responsible for the recovery of aquatic species. Under the program we have, we would be focusing on the recovery of species that have been recommended by COSEWIC as being threatened or at risk, make the determination of whether we would agree with that, and then have recovery programs.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I have one final, quick question. In those recovery programs, do you do economic impact analysis to see what impacts your recommendations might have on communities and local economies?

[David Balfour]

Yes. As part of the recovery assessment process, the department looks at the socio-economic considerations that bear on the resource as a factor in determining what would be its ultimate listing status and what recovery measures would be put in place to support the recovery of the species.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Sopuck.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, gentlemen.

I'd like your evaluation—not your opinion, but the evaluation, and without any doubt you have it—on the trap tags and how valuable it was to the fishery. I understand the government will not be handling the tags issue from this year on. Will it be handled differently in each province? Who will do the management? How much will it cost the fishermen?

Also, there's a great concern from fishermen in my area, and it was understood that the carapace size, as was set, would be left as is. Is there a plan to move it, which I very much hope not?

[David Balfour]

We are moving to see that fish harvesters would be responsible for the acquisition of equipment gear tags starting April 1. We have established a protocol with industry. It's on our website. We've been having a number of meetings with industry to explain the requirements of that protocol. A number of organizations are coming forward to submit gear supplier plans to the department for us to approve, in order that they'd then be able to provide tags to fish harvesters for fisheries commencing after April 1. That process is under way.

As a department, we will have internal control audit protocols in place for us to be able to verify that the supplier regimes that will be in place are such that we can rely on them and the integrity of them. That will be something we'll be doing. There will be a requirement that the submission of lists of tags that are issued would be considered a submission under section 61 of the Fisheries Act so that it would be enforceable by us.

The regime will be consistent on an Atlantic-wide basis. In terms of our requirements, they're the same throughout Atlantic Canada. The price that fisher harvesters will pay for tags will be determined through the marketplace, in terms of determining the most efficient price for the supply of the tags.

With regard to carapace size, my presumption is that you're referring to lobster fishing area 25—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

And 24.