Fisheries Committee on June 13th, 2013

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

I also expect that you'd be very strong, just looking at what happened over the years, on a very intensive environmental review before mining operations were put in place. Am I correct?

[David Ramsay]

Yes, that's correct. Yes. We won't see another Giant mine here in the NWT, or anywhere else in Canada for that matter. It won't happen again.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

We hope not.

You mentioned the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation. How is that viewed in your community? Does it have good rapport? What's the situation with this marketing corporation?

[David Ramsay]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

The fishermen's federation here in the NWT has had a long-standing relationship with the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation. From time to time, they've wanted us to stay in, they've wanted us to go out.... It's all about support and politics and....

When you see a decline in the amount of fishermen who are out there, and the fact that the plant in Hay River is so old and needs to be replaced, and that the supports, as far the fishermen see it, aren't what they require, then they start to ask questions. Those questions come to us as a government. They go to the FFMC. That's why it was important for me that one of the first things I did when I became minister was to meet with the FFMC to try to find a way forward.

We need to work with them on getting a new plant and on looking after the requirements the fishermen are asking us to have for them—the supports—and we believe we can get there. Yes, it has been a tumultuous relationship between the fishermen on Great Slave Lake and the FFMC. As the government, we've kind of been the middleman in all of that over the years.

Today, it's okay, though. Today, it's fine.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

That's a good political answer. I appreciate it.

I'd like to ask you a couple of things first. My time is short.

I'd like you to speak first on your rapport with the first nations.

Another thing that interests me a lot, not knowing a lot about your area, is that you talk about fishing lodges and outdoor experiences. To me, it would be a great marketing tool for your area. You told me, if I understood correctly, that it has declined somewhat.

I would wonder why. Is it because of the promotion? You would think that people worldwide, for the likes of an experience that you can provide, like Mr. Sopuck had when he was up there, would pay a lot of money just to experience what you take for granted.

Thank you.

[David Ramsay]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

Yes, we have world-class fishing opportunities here in the NWT. We had the global downturn in 2008-09, and I think a lot of other jurisdictions did. The NWT wasn't alone. Other jurisdictions in Canada tried to attract U.S. fishermen, predominantly, to Canada to catch fish. We were no different from anywhere else in this country. It declined because of the rise in the Canadian dollar compared to the American dollar. Americans weren't getting the value out of coming to Canada because of the rise in the Canadian dollar. It's just something that we have to grapple with.

As I've mentioned previously in answering another question, we are putting together an aggressive marketing campaign. We've contributed another $1.2 million in marketing for our NWT Tourism. They're our marketing agency.

We will be aggressive. We believe we have a great resource here. We need to get people back to the Northwest Territories, fishing in our waters, and we believe we can do that.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Well, I would believe you could too.

I'd also like you to.... It's interesting, of course, in that there are certain invasive species....

But before you answer that, on the first nations, what's the rapport?

[David Ramsay]

Thanks. I'll comment on that.

I think that of all the jurisdictions in Canada, our government has a great rapport with first nations, even though we have two unsettled land claims here in the Northwest Territories with the Akaitcho and Dehcho. Also, on our devolution agreement, we have five of the aboriginal governments onside with devolution.

Our Premier McLeod has done a great job on building the relationships. There are solid relationships now with aboriginal groups across the NWT.

We have to do things in partnership. We have to work with the aboriginal governments here. That's part of our mandate: to get out and build those relationships. When it comes to fishing lodges or development, and even tourism, a big part of our tourism plan includes cultural and aboriginal tourism. That's something we're very much interested in.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I want to thank you very much. I hope we see you soon. You have a very interesting area.

[David Ramsay]

Yes. Thanks. I hope to cross the bridge there this summer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. MacAulay.

We now will go into an abbreviated round of three minutes per member. We'll start with Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests. We appreciate your testimony. It's been very good information, and it has been very helpful. Lot's of good questions have been asked. In my short time, I want to ask a few questions.

Minister Ramsay, in your opening remarks you mentioned that capacity and production were the limitations on the fishery.

Mr. Colford, you mentioned invasive species as an issue or challenge.

I wonder if you could put forward what you see as the future challenges for the fishery in NWT. We talked about climate change and fuel costs. Invasive species have been mentioned. Do you foresee other challenges in the future?

[David Ramsay]

Thanks, Mr. Donnelly. I'll take the first part, and then on the invasive species, I'll go to Mr. Colford.

One of the big challenges—and I've talked about it before—is getting the investment in capital required to get the fish to market. That includes a new plant in Hay River and stations around Great Slave Lake.

We're also seeing aging fishermen. Most of our fishermen are now in their 50s and 60s. They're close to retirement. We're not seeing young people being interested in that industry. I think we really need to try to attract more young people into the industry. Doing that is hugely important, because if these fishermen retire.... We've seen the number of fishermen on Great Slave Lake continue to dwindle. We need to attract more people.

Another thing I mentioned previously is that the fleet that's out on Great Slave Lake is in dire need of modernization and new equipment. That's a big challenge for us too.

Thank you very much for the question. I'll go to Mr. Colford for discussion on the invasive species.

[John Colford]

I'm not really sure there's much I can add to the discussion on invasive species. Right now we hope that Great Slave Lake will not be dealing with invasive species in the near or distant future. As long as we maintain...and work with the federal government to put in place those means to control the entry of invasive species, I think we'll do well. Great Slave Lake is a prime fishing environment, and we'd like to maintain it that way.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thanks.

I'm surprised you haven't made much mention of fuel costs being an issue into the future.

Could you give me an idea of your market? What percentage is domestic and what percentage is outside of NWT?

[David Ramsay]

Mr. Colford.

[John Colford]

The export market right now is much larger than the domestic market. We really haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the domestic market over the past number of years. We've started to focus on it now as a possible opportunity.

We've been led to that opportunity by fishermen who say, “Listen, if I'm selling fish that's going to Ontario or Europe, why can't we sell it in Yellowknife?” This government has supported that fisherman and a number of others as well.

Again, it comes down to capacity and it's the labour and the cost of fishing. You raised the point about the cost of fuel. Fuel exploded between 2003 and 2010. The cost of operating a fishing boat went up by almost 300%. Meanwhile the price declined. It went in the other direction. While we were dependent on the export market, the export market simply wasn't keeping up with the cost. I think we all assumed it would, but it didn't.

This is where the domestic market comes into play as an important market, especially if we sell a value-added product. People in the Northwest Territories are no different from people in southern Canada. We like convenience in terms of our foods. We like going into the grocery store and picking up a fillet of fish and taking it home, as opposed to a whole fish and doing all the work ourselves at home.

People here in the north value their products. I believe there's a high level of confidence in our fishery and a high level of confidence in the products that are being produced by our fishermen.

It's that simple means of organization, and I suppose capital investment is the big thing at play. There are so many small pieces and parts to put into play. It's a matter of making sure that all the ducks are lined up in the right order. Then I believe you'll have a well-served domestic market as well as a well-served export market.

But if we don't have capital investment, it's not going to be great.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.

Mr. Weston.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have one big thank you and three quick questions. If you don't have time we might get you to just send your note in, if you care to do so. A big thank you for being on the screen today, and I'll echo my colleague's comment for endorsing National Health and Fitness Day in Yellowknife and in Mayo. That was great and a boost to what I'm trying to do to promote health and fitness across the country. I look forward to meeting you in person.

Here are my questions. First, are there three or four locations you think would be the top places to visit if we proceed with our plans to go there?

Second, in the 2013 budget there's a commitment to creating partnerships. It's a $10 million commitment to bring out recreational fishing. The idea is to get a small amount of government money sown in a community, which would then galvanize the community to do things. So we're wondering if that's going to find favour in your part of the world.

Third, in terms of asserting sovereignty up in the north, do you see wisdom in this idea of having a commercial fishery?

So there are three big questions, and I have only three minutes.

[David Ramsay]

Thank you, Mr. Weston.

If you did choose to visit the Northwest Territories, that would be fantastic. The summer months are obviously the best time of year to visit, any time from May until September. The top three places you would want to visit relative to the fishery would be Hay River on the south shore of Great Slave Lake—that's the hub of activity in the fishery—Yellowknife, and perhaps a smaller community like Deline located on Great Bear Lake. They have a lodge there. They have facilities there that you could put to good use. They also have the tourism angle with operations on Great Bear Lake for fishing. That would be great if you had the opportunity to come and visit for yourselves.

On the sovereignty question, we have done a great deal of work with the federal government. Again, I have to thank the federal government for all the money they've helped with so we could get infrastructure here in the Northwest Territories and we could grow and put that necessary infrastructure in place. I mentioned the Building Canada fund earlier. Just recently we had the announcement on the Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk Highway project. Having a highway that's going to connect this country from coast to coast to coast speaks a great deal to Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic. Certainly if we had a flourishing commercial fishery here that would certainly be of benefit on a sovereignty front as well.

As I mentioned earlier, we've had success in partnering with the federal government on other programs through which we've seen cost-shared dollars come into the territory. For the fishery we welcome that as well.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Ramsay, let me just interrupt. I'm sure my time is waning.

Those partnerships are to be with volunteer groups in the community. So maybe it's something worth exploring, and if you think there are some good ideas that can be cultivated you could let us know by memo or tell us when we meet you in person.

[David Ramsay]

That would be great, Mr. Weston. Thank you. We'll do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Weston.

We are going back to Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have two quick questions, and then maybe you could spend the short time that I have just responding to those. The first one is on the recreation and sports sector. There's been some talk of that. I'm just wondering if you can elaborate on some of the trends, challenges, and opportunities in that sector for the Northwest Territories.

Second, I'm wondering if you have any comment about the recent changes to the Fisheries Act and how it affects the territory, and whether you were able to submit input on the changes to the regulations.