Fisheries Committee on June 18th, 2013

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks for being here with us again today. It's nice to finally hear your presentation. I found it very interesting. I think what you've said has been fairly positive when talking about the state of the industry and the way it is today, with the stable or increased landings. I believe you said that the immediate future was looking quite good for the lobster stock.

You also talked about how the lobster grows through the moulting process and how that was highly influenced by temperature. We know there are changing patterns with water temperatures along the east coast. Do you see any impact on the health of the lobster stock because of that? If you do, what would that be? We have heard lots about infectious diseases and viruses in fish species. Is there a concern about those with lobster? Also, is there any concern about the various food resources that would be needed to maintain the lobster stock?

[Kevin Stringer]

In terms of temperature, I think the standard view is that one of the reasons lobster has done as well as it has is the current temperature regime in the Atlantic. That's actually had a positive impact. But things are changing more rapidly than they had before, and studies are ongoing on temperature and acidification. There are some very interesting studies on acidification. If it continues at the rate we think it might be happening, that will have an impact on how often they molt and how much they grow. We've done some tests in pools, simulated to see what the impact would be.

Those are things that we do want to watch very carefully.

On the issue of lobster disease, animal health is a big issue, but we have not seen evidence of significant lobster disease in Canada. It is an issue that we need to watch carefully, particularly in pounding operations where they congregate in small areas.

It's not known, but is not considered to be excessive. It is something that we saw in some parts of the U.S. So it's something we're keeping a watch on, but it's not currently a big issue for us.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

When you talk about keeping an eye on the impact of acidification because it could make difference, is that a negative impact causing the molting process to be longer or...?

[Kevin Stringer]

As I've read, my recollection is that it would take a longer period between molts and that growth is less substantial. Now, that was in a very protected, small sample. We don't know exactly what would happen in ocean conditions. But I think the studies we've seen have asked about the potential projections for the ocean in 100 years, and therefore we'll have a sense of what it's going to be like at that time, and as we go forward. So there are challenges around acidification and the impacts around it.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Given the fact there are so many different jurisdictional responsibilities when it comes to the lobster industry, the federal government being one of them and, of course, provincial governments and the industry itself, what do you see as the single most important thing the federal government can do, if anything, to assist in this issue of market pricing?

[Kevin Stringer]

I'll ask Adam to speak to what we could do in terms of market pricing. What I would say is that the bottom line is to ensure that the stocks are there so that we can continue to have this discussion, as opposed to the alternative discussion, which wouldn't be quite as good.

But in terms of the specific question, Adam, can you speak to it?

[Adam Burns]

At the end of the day, the price the market is willing to pay is directly linked to the demand for the product and the available supply. So the main lever that DFO would have any sort of control over would relate to the supply, whether that's working with industry.... Again, these are all things that we would want to work collaboratively with industry on. These aren't things that we would want to be in a position of imposing.

Changes to seasons, in some instances, may be of some help to further spread out the supply of lobster. Changes in carapace size, and also looking at other ways that we manage the fishery, like boat quotas, would allow harvesters to better plan and align their catches with market demand than with the competitive approach we have now.

As I mentioned before, there are some other levers available to industry that DFO doesn't have to play a direct role in, wherein, as we've seen this spring, even buyers have limited the amount they will purchase from individual harvesters on any given day to reduce the amount of lobster coming out of the water and heading to market. As a result, there is a reduced supply, which has an impact on the price the market is willing to pay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We've had some interesting questions so far. I guess there are maybe two questions I would add to this discussion about markets. There's been a note by some European consumers about humanely treated lobster. I'm wondering if you could comment on that.

Where I'm going with this is the question of developing niche markets and whether there is any value-added role that either the DFO or, obviously, the provincial governments or industry itself could play in that through the council.

[Nadia Bouffard]

I'm not sure I heard the last part of your question, but I'll start answering the first and maybe we can go from there.

There is a small but growing issue, mostly in northern Europe, or concern with respect to how lobsters are handled and how they're killed in the process of processing. It has to do with the humane treatment of lobsters. This has resulted in some closures of certain markets, and I'm trying to remember the countries. I'm not an expert in terms of exports, nor is DFO, for that matter, but I believe it was north—

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Are we doing anything in response to that?

[Nadia Bouffard]

Yes, there have been a lot of activities, jointly with the industry, the processors, officials from Foreign Affairs and International Trade, as well as Agriculture Canada. They have met with the buyers and retailers, who are questioning the practices used in Canada with lobsters, trying to demonstrate and provide more information and clarity on how things are being handled. Technology is being developed by the industry and processors to address some of those issues.

The industry is best placed to give you the details on this but, for instance, they're coming up with processes to lodge individual lobsters in cages to avoid lobsters being stacked up all together, and having a water funnel through these cages, so they're continuously being fed with and living through oxygenated water.

I don't know the details of this technology, but I know these things are being developed by the industry, as they should be, to meet standards for good quality products and market demand.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Is there any role that DFO can play in assisting with developing niche markets or adding value to certain products? We've already talked about supply and demand.

[Nadia Bouffard]

That role actually belongs to industry but also Agriculture Canada. I spoke about their role on market access and marketing and they do have programs to assist in that respect.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

If I have some time, my last question is for Kevin. You mentioned incubation areas. Could you talk a little bit more about the role of incubation areas, not just in the lobster fishery but overall? How successful is that?

[Kevin Stringer]

It's area 40. There are lobster areas across Atlantic Canada. There are a grand total of 41. We probably should have brought a map that shows the areas, but just off southwest Nova Scotia, there's an area—it's not huge—called area 40. Of all 41 lobster fishing areas, I believe it's the only one that is not actually open to fishing. That's because we have found there are a large number of large egg-bearing females in that area.

When I said they mostly go from warm water to cold water and back, it's a matter of a couple of kilometres. This is the area where it's a matter of tens or hundreds of kilometres. It's an area where we believe eggs are hatched and there's drifting in-shore. So it's actually feeding area 34, area 35, and potentially area 33, etc.

It has become what we call, in the vernacular, an incubation area. We believe it's having an effect, so we have kept that as a closed area.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Was there ever a time when lobster stocks collapsed, and if so, what was done to rebuild the stocks?

[Kevin Stringer]

I don't know the answer to that. I know that we've definitely had significant ups and downs. If you look back at history, I don't remember exactly when, but about 100 years ago it fell off. What we don't know is whether the people stopped fishing it or whatever. We could get you more detail on that.

And we are concerned. When you see this kind of an exponential growth, there is a concern about a precipitous decline. We are concerned about that. We're concerned about level of effort. We're concerned about the exploitation rate. The exploitation rate is such that of the legally available lobster in this instance, in some areas we're taking 60% and in others as high as 80% of the legally available lobster. Therefore, there's a small number that's able to populate for the future.

Hence, the application of the precautionary approach in ensuring that we stay in the healthy zone and our taking more action when we get into the healthy zone. But you're right about looking at history. Recent history doesn't help us. Going further back, even further than Adam can go back, is something that we probably should be looking at doping and seeing what actually worked. They didn't have the management measures in place in those times that we now have.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I think that's a remarkable record, because fish stocks can collapse and rebound. We had that incredible resurgence of sockeye salmon in 2010 in the Fraser after a decade of low fish numbers, so I find it remarkable that the department really doesn't have a record of any time when the stocks collapsed.

[Kevin Stringer]

I wouldn't say that. We'll check to see if that's the case. We've certainly had ups and downs.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Right.

[Kevin Stringer]

You talked about a precipitous decrease.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

What kind of monitoring of the wild stocks does the department do?

[Adam Burns]

In terms of monitoring the stocks, one of the key indicators from a fisheries management perspective would relate to the catch per unit of effort and landing. We have that reporting coming from the wharf as the fishing season unfolds. In fairly real time we're getting that information, looking at the landings and comparing those to previous years. As Kevin referenced, in recent years certainly, the indications have typically been very positive in terms of the landings, such that it in fact contributes to some of the other concerns the committee has expressed today. In terms of a longer-term science program, I think Kevin would speak to that.