Fisheries Committee on March 31st, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I'll call this meeting to order.

I'd like to start by thanking Minister Shea for being with us here today. I appreciate your appearance, Minister. I know you have a delegation with you from the department. I'm sure you will introduce them or the deputy will introduce them at the appropriate time.

I guess, Minister, I don't have to go through the procedures. I know you're quite familiar with how our committee operates.

I'll ask if you want to proceed right into your opening statements.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you for the invitation to appear before the committee on Fisheries and Oceans main estimates. Before getting started I want to say it's great to be working as the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans in this important portfolio, and I'm delighted to have the chance to work with all of you.

Joining me are members of our DFO senior management team.

We have David Gillis, acting assistant deputy minister of ecosystems and oceans science sector. Next to David is the chief financial officer and assistant deputy minister, Marty Muldoon. Then we have associate deputy minister David Bevan. We have the Deputy Minister, Matthew King, as well as the Canadian Coast Guard Commissioner, Marc Grégoire. Next to Marc is assistant deputy minister of ecosystems and fisheries management, operations, Trevor Swerdfager. And last but not least is the senior assistant deputy minister of ecosystems and fisheries management, Kevin Stringer.

The department's 2014-15 main estimates total $1.6 billion. The key elements include increases in funding for science vessels, oil spills, and aquaculture regulation, along with decreases in funding related to ongoing vessel projects and recent spending reviews. The CFO will provide the committee with an overview of these shortly.

My remarks will focus on our priorities for the upcoming year.

I want to begin by highlighting our investments in our country's fisheries and oceans that support job growth, competitiveness, and quality of life for fishing families and the communities that rely on them.

For example, our economic action plan 2014 includes $15 million over two years for the recreational fisheries conservation partnership program. It also includes $40 million over two years to accelerate repair and maintenance work at small-craft harbours across the country. It includes important investments for the national conservation plan and the health of the oceans program. It includes, Mr. Chair, a tax credit for search and rescue volunteers who perform at least 200 hours of service a year. It also includes $66.1 million to renew the Atlantic integrated commercial fisheries initiative and the Pacific integrated commercial fisheries initiative. The latter investment will allow increased participation of first nations fishing enterprises in Canada's integrated fishery.

All budgetary measures will support economic growth and create jobs in Canada, especially in rural, coastal, and aboriginal communities.

For 2014-15 our focus will be on improving fisheries management practices, giving the coast guard the tools they need, ensuring responsible resource development, and pursuing operational excellence.

Our first order of business will be improving the way in which we manage our fisheries. Domestically the department is working with fishermen to strengthen the competitiveness of the fish and seafood sector. Abroad, we continue to strengthen Canadian access to export markets for fish and seafood products, while also promoting and protecting our traditional industries.

Our efforts to expand markets have paid off. Recently the Government of Canada and the Republic of Korea concluded negotiations for a bilateral free trade agreement. The trade agreement is Canada's first with an Asian market. Phasing out high tariffs on fish and seafood products will create new opportunities for Canadian exporters and put them on a level playing field with U.S. producers.

Another excellent example is the Canada-EU comprehensive economic and trade agreement announced last October. The EU is the world's largest importer of fish and seafood products, importing over $25 billion annually, and our second-largest trading and investment partner. When this agreement comes into effect, it will give the industry preferential access to the EU's 500 million consumers and their $17 trillion in annual economic activity.

I'd like to briefly mention the challenges highlighted by the Maritime Lobster Panel report and the “Independent Review of the Prince Edward Island Lobster Industry”. I reviewed these reports with great interest and have given much consideration to the recommendations directed at DFO, in particular those that were outlined in the report of the Maritime Lobster Panel.

It called on us to continue rationalization of the lobster fleet, to improve how we work with harvester organizations, and to develop an electronic data collection system for catch and effort. The success of our response to help the lobster industry, however, relies on the support, consent, and cooperation of industry groups and the provinces to successfully carry out each of these initiatives.

We're committed to the future of the lobster industry and small-scale fisheries. That's why we have a policy in place called preserving the independence of the inshore fleet in Canada's Atlantic fisheries. This is known as PIIFCAF for short. Introduced in April 2007 the purpose of this policy is to ensure that the benefits of fishing licences flow to harvesters in the rural coastal communities in which they live. As of April 12, after a seven-year grace period PIIFCAF will be fully implemented. This policy reiterates my department's ongoing commitment to owner-operator and fleet separation policies and to support the independence of the inshore fleet in Atlantic Canada.

Our next priority in 2014-15 is giving the Canadian Coast Guard the tools they need for their important tasks of ensuring safe and efficient navigation for all Canadians. We are also taking steps to establish an incident command system to improve the coast guard's ability to manage responses to marine pollution incidents. We will continue to work in collaboration with our key emergency response partners to protect our oceans.

The next order of business will be implementing the fisheries protection provisions contained in the new Fisheries Act and will concentrate on a modernized aquaculture regulatory framework. As you know, aquaculture is the fastest-growing food production sector worldwide, now supplying over 50% of the global demand for fish and seafood. Canada generates 174,000 tonnes of aquaculture product. This is worth over $2 billion annually and translates into 14,000 jobs in rural, coastal, and aboriginal communities. That's why the government is proud to invest $54 million over five years for the renewal of the sustainable aquaculture program. Renewing the sustainable aquaculture program will help to support the sector's challenges to grow by streamlining regulations, by improving the regulatory management, providing transparency, as well as by increasing scientific knowledge and supporting science-based decision-making.

As indicated in budget 2013, the department was asked to contribute to the government's fiscal balance. To achieve the targeted savings we have focused on improving how we use technology, in particular video conferencing, simplifying the management structure in the organization, reducing some administrative overhead, and strengthening the department's decision-making processes. We now have in place a leaner department, better integrated, and with a results-based approach to our work.

That said, DFO continues to maintain a significant presence in all regions of the country. The fishing industry will continue to be able to count on the support of people with local knowledge and sensitivity to local issues. We continue to focus on eliminating the deficit and balancing the budget by 2015. This year's estimates continue to steadily decrease in the amount of voted spending. This reduction reflects the ongoing success of the cost-cutting measures the government has put in place and our unwavering resolve to cut unnecessary spending and balance the budget. With these investments and changes to how we do business, my department and this government will continue to modernize how we deliver results for fishermen across the country. We will continue ensuring safe and efficient marine navigation for all Canadians, as well as the long-term sustainability of essential coast guard assets in support of safe and secure waters.

Let me close by saying a few words on the seafood expo that took place mid-March in Boston. As you probably know, this is North America's largest and most important seafood expo and it has been an outstanding success. This was an excellent opportunity to showcase our Canadian products. It was extremely gratifying for me to visit one of the world's leading seafood expos and witness first-hand the positive reception to Canadian seafood products and to Canadian industry practices. That interest in and support for our products should make every Canadian proud. It also gave members of our seafood industry a chance to meet with potential buyers from a huge American market and to establish contacts with some European buyers as well. Our trade agreements with the EU and the Republic of Korea represent huge opportunities for Canada's fish and seafood sector. While these agreements are not fully implemented yet, I can tell you there was a lot of optimism at the seafood show.

In 2013 we saw the largest annual growth in seafood export values since 2010 and I'm certainly optimistic that this upward trend will continue thanks to this very ambitious trade agenda.

Thank you very much. Marty Muldoon has a short presentation on the estimates as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Mr. Muldoon, I presume you're going to give us a brief explanation of the slide deck you distributed. Thank you.

The questions are on the estimates, so please proceed, Mr. Muldoon.

[Marty Muldoon, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon. I'm pleased to be here in my new capacity in the organization and to have this opportunity to provide you with a very brief overview of DFO's proposed main estimates. We did provide the committee with this, as the chair was just noting, and I will speak to that, beginning on page 4. I know your time is valuable.

As the minister just noted, our estimates total some $1.6 billion.

Under vote 1, operating expenditures, we're seeking just over $1.1 billion. I would note that $724 million of that is for salaries. Under vote 5, capital expenditures, we're seeking $325 million, of which 73% is in relation to the Canadian Coast Guard fleet and shore-based asset readiness. Under vote 10, grants and contributions, it's a fairly steady story here, at $57.9 million.

The last two items, statutory in nature, are the contributions for the department as a whole for employee benefits and the statutory increase for the salary and motor car allowance of some $80,300. It's rounded to $0.1 million, as you see in the table.

Altogether, it's at $1.605 billion, compared to $1.669 billion last year. That represents a $63.6-million year-over-year decrease in the main estimates for this institution.

Page 6 is where I'll spend the bulk of my time. I'll be pretty much wrapping up right after that. I just want to take a moment to walk through the key changes in variance between the two years of the main estimates. These items are taken directly out of the part II main estimates at pages 139 and 140.

The first item is a $32-million increase for procurement for the Canadian Coast Guard offshore science vessel program. We're bringing in funding this year for this program in order to carry out the engineering phases and what we call the “long lead procurement items”, the items we will procure or begin the procurement process for well in advance of their arrival in time for the shipbuilding phase. These are for the propulsion systems and navigation systems, so here this is simply the staging of the cash profile. It's not a new item. This stems from the $5.2-billion renewal announcement from the fleet readiness approvals in budget 2012.

I'll just make the point that there are a few more following on this same page that are all around timing. They're not really around the issue of a new incremental ask. It's busy work trying to synchronize the estimates to when shipbuilding actually occurs.

The next item on the list is $24.3 million to strengthen “the prevention, preparedness and response regime to oil spills from ships”. Budget 2012 provided funding for this initiative, the focus being on spill response capacity on the west coast of Canada and developing spill trajectory models. Last year, we brought in the funding for this important initiative through supplementary estimates. This is our first year to be able to actually book them in and regularize them through the main estimates.

The next item is pretty similar to that. It's the $10.5 million in sustainable aquaculture that the minister just referred to. This program was sunsetting in 2012-13 and was renewed in budget 2013. The department received its five-year renewal. The first year of the funding we brought in through supplementaries, and now we're at the stage of being able to permanently reference-level that five-year project through the 2014-15 main estimates.

There's a couple of notable increases that aren't on the list and made it into the main estimates. I'll just quickly cover those. There is $6.4 million for the continuation of the recreational fisheries conservation partnerships program, and then, as the minister noted, that's a two-year extension to the original approval, so we'll see that again in next year's main estimates as we go through the next year. The second item I would draw your attention to is the $3.3-million increase for the Asian carp issue in the Great Lakes.

Now, switching to the red ink and dealing with the decreases, the first item you see on the list is $45.2 million for the strategic and operating review. I'm sure we're familiar with the fact that stems from budget 2012 announcements. This, for us, marks the final year of what we had otherwise called the SOR reductions. Having this reduction, we have now fully addressed both the strategic review, its predecessor from the previous budget, and now SOR. We have one more year of reductions left with what's known as targeted review. We'll see that again next year in the main estimates.

The follow-on item is another one of those timing issues that I talked about. In terms of the marine fleet, this is $36.8 million relative to the midshore patrol vessels. This one has a different sort of layout to it. The department had $212.5 million approved for this important initiative. We were to build and put into service nine midshore patrol vessels. We've completed and received seven of those vessels, and two more will come in this year, in 2014-15.

The reason for the reduction is that we had $69.4 million in authorities last year and in this coming year we only need $32.6 million. The difference is $36.8 million, so we need to reduce our authorities to match the outflow of that project requirement.

We're on to the next one of $30.2 million for what's called the vessel life extension and mid-life modernization program for the Canadian Coast Guard.

These two tangential programs either ensure that our vessel fleet reaches its intended useful purpose, or when it's necessary—as we're going to see coming up now on the icebreaker program for instance—if we need to continue a vessel well past its normal expected life, we have to put an extension program in place.

In this instance, this is part of the $5.2 billion program for the fleet renewal. A total of $360 million was approved for this activity.

We're getting down to the bottom two. I mentioned a moment ago a targeted review of $5.4 million. This is year two of the three-year plan and next year we will be in the final year.

The last item is $5 million related to the sunset and completion of the initiative to support the Quebec and Atlantic Canada lobster harvesters and lobster fishery in those regions.

In 2009, Fisheries received $64.8 million over a five-year window. This program will sunset as it was intended to, today basically, so the mains reflect the removal of the $5 million in authority that rested in our final reference levels, and that program is now effectively, successfully concluded.

There's another form of a change which we made depending on where we go in the discussions. It may pop up. We just went through a fairly low-key but important restructuring. A number of areas in the department moved from one side of program activity to another. We needed to make a number of changes in the main estimates to reflect those consequential budget movements. It's basically a minus here becomes a plus somewhere else. I'll have an example in just a second.

I'll wrap up very quickly by moving through the last few slides just as reference points. I'm on slide 6.

In summary, the department has 25 programs. We see the first number of them under this area called safe and secure waters. We plan to spend something in the order of $676 million. I would point out that about 81% of this whole area is going to be spent in the coast guard on the two big areas you see on the pie chart: fleet operational readiness that ensures our fleet and our ships crews are ready to go; and shore-based assets which provide the essential ground support to them.

On the next page we move into what's called economically prosperous maritimes sectors and fisheries program activities and strategic outcome. Here, $401 million, and of that about 57%, is spent on fisheries management, which is both commercial and recreational as well as small craft harbours.

On the last summary page by strategic outcome area we have sustainable aquatic ecosystems, $238 million. The point here is to notice that 69% of that program is being spent on the compliance and enforcement side which includes monitoring and surveillance as well as the fisheries protection program.

Our last program area summed up on slide 9 is internal services. This area is going to be $290.6 million this year. That's up a small increase of $4 million. This is the example I gave a moment ago of some internal restructuring, so it's not really getting new money. Some of the IT services that were located in some areas, pockets of programs, have now been reconsolidated with the CIO branch which falls under internal services. It's a net increase of about $4 million. On this page it is a bit interesting that about $111 million out of the total spend is for our real property program.

I'll close off by saying that subject to the approval of these main estimates, as the minister noted, we would be in the area of about $1.605 billion. From there we would see, over the year, the opportunity to increase that amount with those budget 2014 items as noted. Then also, of course, there is the in-year opportunity to bring in our operating and capital carry-forwards. These aren't reflected in the mains due to timing issues.

So at the end of the year, I'm expecting we'll be somewhere in the order of about $1.75 billion in total estimate authority level.

Thank you again, Mr. Chair, for this opportunity.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Muldoon, and thank you, Minister Shea.

We'll move into questions and we'll start with Mr. Chisholm.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Madam Minister, it's a pleasure to see you here before the committee. There are so many things for us to discuss with a $1.6 billion budget responsibility for your department covering fisheries management, habitat protection science, research, search and rescue, coast guard, and we have 10 minutes in which to have that discussion. Nonetheless, we have to try to break this down into a few questions.

We will be sharing the 10 minutes among ourselves.

You raised the issue of PIIFCAF, and I want to acknowledge how pleased the owner-operator fleet is with the way you have gone toward the deadline and the way you have implemented the PIIFCAF program. People are very pleased with the recognition that you and your department have given to the value of the owner-operator fleet and the connection between the ownership of the fishery, the conduct of the fishery, and the communities that benefit from it. I applaud you and your department for that effort.

In that context I want to raise my concern about the other coast, the west coast, and the fact that the independent fisherman is less confident with the way the industry is being managed there. With the ITQ fleet, of course, with the allocations, the cost of fishing is upward of 80% of landings and what's left over for the crew and the skipper is minimal. There is now an effort it appears—people feel there is an effort to push ITQs into the salmon fishery.

Given your support for PIIFCAF on the east coast, I think you would recognize the alarm that many owner-operator fishermen and communities are feeling with this push to ITQs, the disconnect between the ownership and the prosecution of the fishery in that sector. Would you take the same commitment you and your department have shown to the owner-operator and fleet separation policies on the east coast and make sure that is reflected on the west coast as well?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

To comment on this PIIFCAF policy on the east coast, I have never seen anything bring 36 organizations of fishers together so fast to stand side by side on one issue. There is good support for it, and we'll go forward to implement it.

On the west coast, of course, this management measure has been in place for a number of years. I've talked to a lot of people on the west coast. Some want to revisit it, so ITQs have varying degrees of support. Of course, ITQs and IQs make it easier to manage a fishery but at the same time it's the T that causes a lot of trouble, not just because T is for trouble, but because it stands for “transferable”. It allows people to transfer their quota and maybe live in some other country most of the year while someone else is fishing their quota.

We're open to having conversations. We pride ourselves on consulting with fishermen all the time on a regular basis on all management measures. It's definitely an issue I'll be following.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

I just want to reiterate the fact that those people in the salmon fishery are trying to push back against efforts by the department, and I would ask you to try to hang tough with your commitment to that policy.

Now I will ask my colleague to ask the next question.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you, Robert.

Thank you, Madam Minister.

The first thing I'd like to do is acknowledge that yesterday was the 100th anniversary of the 1914 sealing disasters off Newfoundland when the SS Southern Cross was lost at sea and when the SS Newfoundland lost a number of fishermen on the ice. In total 251 Newfoundland and Labrador sealers were killed. It was the anniversary yesterday. I just wanted to acknowledge that at the beginning of the meeting.

My specific question has to do with shrimp quotas off Newfoundland and Labrador. The word in the industry in my province, Madam Minister, is that total biomass is down, and it's down dramatically, and the industry is actually expecting cuts in the shrimp quotas in the order of 15,000 to 20,000 tonnes. Now that creates a number of interesting scenarios in terms of how you as the minister and your department decide how to cut the quota. It's either the last-in-first-out policy or you go with the new principle, the principle of adjacency, which is being promoted in a lot of areas in my province. How exactly would you address cuts to the shrimp quota?

Finally, shrimp seems to be yet another in a long list of commercial stocks off Newfoundland and Labrador that have collapsed. DFO just can't get the management right. The simple question is why?

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I'll give you my question too, Madam Minister.

On December 16, 2013, just before the House of Commons took a long break from work, the National Energy Board and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans signed a memorandum of understanding that will make the board responsible for evaluating the potential impact of pipeline projects on aquatic species at risk.

That is exactly the kind of decision that can only remove credibility from the impending consultation of the National Energy Board on the energy east pipeline, which includes the construction of an oil port on the St. Lawrence River.

Madam Minister, could you explain to us the justification for such a counterproductive decision? Could you also name a single pipeline project in the past 20 years that was prevented by a study that was needlessly prolonged by Department of Fisheries and Oceans experts? I am asking you to name a single scenario where the presence of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans prevented a pipeline project from moving forward.

Thank you.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Thank you. I will ask one of my staff to respond to your last question.

On the shrimp quota, of course we have to manage the fishery based on science, and it is concerning that the shrimp stocks seem to be shrinking. We had some cuts in area 7 last year and now we're seeing that the shrimp stock seems to be declining in area 6, so we will be having a conversation over the next week or two at DFO. I'll be getting a full briefing on the science.

I've talked to many of the stakeholders, and of course you know the history of this is, when the cod collapsed, the shrimp population ballooned, so the shrimp fishery was opened up to new participants. It is well documented in letters that went back and forth between groups, including the union, at the time when the decision was made to allow new entrants, that they would be allowed in based on the fact that they would be the first to go when the stocks declined.

The increase in the shrimp population was allotted on a 90-10 basis, so 90% of the increase in the shrimp quota went to create an inshore fishery, and 10% went to the existing offshore fishery.

So that's the essence of the LIFO policy. It is a very difficult decision, of course, because people have been in this industry now for a number of years. The bigger concern I guess is that the population is declining. Now we've had some discussions within the department and maybe science can give you something more accurate, but it does appear that when you have an increase in the cod stocks—what we're seeing now, those stocks seem to be rebounding—we have a decrease in the shrimp quota. So the issue is that, of course, fishermen cannot fish the cod and sell it for as much as they are currently receiving for shrimp or crab.

So there is a concern of what is happening there in the ecosystem, I can tell you that. We'll be making a decision on the shrimp quota in the next week or two.

My officials will respond to the St. Lawrence question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Are the officials going to answer the question?

Mr. Stringer.

[Kevin Stringer, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

The other question was about Fisheries Act authorizations around pipelines, and our process. I'll just speak briefly to what we do.

Section 35 of the Fisheries Act basically says that no project, including pipelines, may cause “serious harm to fish that are part of a commercial, recreational or Aboriginal fishery”. It used to say that “harmfully alters, disrupts or destroys habitat”. Either way we are responsible for authorizing that harm. That is a process that we undertake. So there are authorizations regularly issued with pipelines. We did it before the changes to the Fisheries Act. We do it now. We do have arrangements with others, and sometimes it's provinces and sometimes it's other agencies. We established the standard that must be met to be able to reach that serious harm level. At the end of the day, it's the minister who issues the authorizations.

We've done it, as I said, often. What is often the case is if there is harm, the minister can authorize the serious harm, but there must be an offset provided by the pipeline company in this case, an offset to make up for the impact on fish habitat.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Stringer.

We'll move to Mr. Sopuck now.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thank you.

Minister, I was very pleased to see that the funding for the recreational fisheries conservation partnerships program in the main estimates was not only maintained, but increased dramatically. Canada's 4 million recreational fishermen, who support an $8-billion industry in this country, are very appreciative of what you and your department have done.

In terms of the first round of funding, can you talk about the types and number of projects that were funded in the first round?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

This is proving to be a very popular program, with lots of uptake in every province and territory. Under the first round there were 94 different projects funded. That was approximately $6 million in federal funding alone. Of course, with the other partners that would be a lot more.

The projects varied, and I attended many of them, but they all had certainly stream enhancement, habitat enhancement, and fishery enhancement at the core of their projects. Of course, there were as many varying partnerships as well across the country.

We currently received a second round of applications. We received over 150 applications in the most recent round, totalling over $7 million in requests. Early this spring the results of that second round will be made public.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Great. I must say that having been a little bit involved with the development of the program, I'd like to publicly compliment the departmental staff for being able to administer what obviously was a fairly complex program, and administer it in a manner that was very congruent with what the angling groups wanted. Things were done on time; funding was advanced on time. I think the department itself, Minister, under your watch, deserves a lot of credit for how the program was rolled out, and we're certainly looking forward to the next round as it unfolds.

I'm in fairly constant touch, as the chair of the Conservative hunting and angling caucus, with angling groups across the country. They're very excited about what your department is doing under your watch.

Speaking of further good news under your watch, Minister, it has been reported that the department is estimating record Pacific salmon runs off the west coast. Specifically, the sockeye salmon run is projected to be a record, but in the article written by Mark Hume, he also talks about up and down the B.C. coast, chinook and coho being at record levels. I would make the point that the record salmon run in 2010 off the coast of B.C., and the expected even larger run off the coast of B.C. in 2014, was under the watch of this Conservative government, under your watch as well, Madam Minister. I think the point has been proven that the changes that we have made to the Fisheries Act and the fisheries management programs are working.

Can you discuss what we're looking forward to in terms of that Pacific salmon run?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

There certainly is a lot of optimism for 2014 up and down the coast of British Columbia on almost every salmon run. I'm a little hesitant to put numbers out there, because sometimes the fish don't do what you want them to do. I remember well in 2009 when we had the same anticipation, and they were a year late coming, but they did come.

I do have to say that I have never witnessed a population so engaged in the salmon fishery as the population in British Columbia. For every family and every community, salmon is just king, and you feel that when you go and talk to people. Even kids in schools are learning about salmon. They have aquariums in their schools where they learn everything about the life cycle of a salmon. It is very impressive how people in B.C., just the general population, take ownership of this. It's who they are. It's such a cultural icon. I credit a lot of the health of the salmon population to the residents of B.C. and to organizations like the Pacific Salmon Foundation that do incredible work.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Agreed.

In terms of that run, can you or perhaps your staff speculate as to the biological and ecological factors that all came together to create this perfect storm of a salmon run?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

I'm going to turn that over to Dave Gillis.

[David Gillis, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Chair, we're pleased to see the results of the estimates we've been able to arrive at for the 2014 run. There are probably a couple of important factors at play here that could be mentioned. First off, as the minister mentioned earlier, these are the prodigy of the run from 2010, which was a very large run as well. We are expecting to see a healthy return four years later, after their normal migration at sea. It's also the case of course, as it is with shrimp, which you referred to in your earlier question, that ocean conditions have a lot to do with the survival and growth of all species including Pacific salmon. It certainly appears, as we understand it, that the conditions for these particular fish on their sojourn into the ocean have been quite good.

Putting those two things together, we have a very strong estimate for returns. There is some uncertainty, and, as the minister says, the fish are not in the bank until they're in the bank, but we certainly look forward to a strong return in 2014 based on the combination of those factors.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I'll turn it over to Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.

Minister, thanks so much for being with us again today. It's always a pleasure.

In my riding the aquatic invasive species are of huge interest and particularly the very devastating effects that the Asian carp could have if in fact it gains a stronghold in the Great Lakes. I was pleased to hear Mr. Muldoon outline the $3.3 million for the Asian carp initiative in the Great Lakes. I wonder if you could speak to that funding that has been provided, and to the government's plans for early detection and enforcement.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Maybe I will turn that over to Mr. Gillis as well, since he's well versed in specifically what we'll be doing with that funding.

[David Gillis]

I'll elaborate on part of it, and then I may pass it to my management colleagues as well. Certainly the Asian carp program is an important one. We realize, based on the risk assessment work that we've done from a strong science basis, that this is a species that we need to monitor very carefully.

There is a science program associated with the Asian carp funding that is helping us do some research to develop new tools to monitor for the presence of Asian carp in Canadian waters and to make that information available to colleagues in management who will be using that as the basis for a rapid response program. Science and management work closely together to learn and then inform one another about how to respond, should we see reports of Asian carp or indications of Asian carp in Canadian waters.