Fisheries Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Small.

We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey for six minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Gibbons, could you provide to the committee, at a later date, what branches of the department benefited from the budgetary increases since 2015? There was a number given. I believe you said that the budget to DFO increased by $8 billion. Could you provide, in general terms, to the committee, those areas of the ministry that the majority of those funds went to?

[Annette Gibbons]

Absolutely. It would have been distributed all across, but in certain areas more than others, for sure.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

There were two specific areas that received significant expenditure reductions, cutbacks, under the previous government—protection and science. I'd like to know how the department has moved forward on bringing those to the levels required, because everybody knows when they appear before this committee that protection comes at the top, and conservation. There will be no fishery on either coast without effective conservation, so I would like to know that.

If you didn't receive the $346 million, what would give?

[Annette Gibbons]

What would give?

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

A lot of essential services come under your minister. I'm thinking coast guard, search and rescue.... Yes, what would give?

[Annette Gibbons]

The biggest item in the supplementary estimates is funding for various treaties and reconciliation agreements that we have. Those are on the east coast, on the west coast and in different parts of the country. Certainly, being able to make good on the commitments in those areas this fiscal year would be a big challenge for us.

Given the timing of supplementary estimates, being December, with four months left in the fiscal year, we would just be in a bit of a crisis mode, actually trying to figure out what we'd stop doing between now and then, because we've made commitments in various areas—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay, that's fair, Ms. Gibbons.

Could you elaborate on the additional money for the Canadian Coast Guard, especially as it relates to the multi-purpose vessel program? Could you inform the committee how that is going and why it's extremely important? If you're a fisher in distress, you really want to see the Coast Guard, so it's important to have adequate vessels properly crewed.

Could you give us a general overview to depict what stage we are at in that ambitious project?

[Annette Gibbons]

Sure, and of course, the supplementary estimates number for the multi-purpose vessels project is just a very small piece of what we're doing under the national shipbuilding strategy to replace the Coast Guard fleet, so we're at different stages with all sorts of different types of vessels fit for different purposes at the three shipyards that are building the vessels.

We've already had several vessels delivered under the strategy, fishery research vessels, a lot of vessels for the Coast Guard to effectively support fishers in distress and other Canadians on the water. With the multipurpose vehicle, in particular, we are at the stage of designing the vessel. These are very long, detailed processes that require a lot of back-and-forth, so it's really critical that we continue that process.

Of course, for each ship project and each vessel within a given type of ship, it takes a certain amount of time to do all of the planning and all of the design, to buy the construction materials from different suppliers, wherever they may be, and then to actually start the work in the shipyard. Doing all of the outfitting takes a tremendous amount of time and lots of phasing with the other vessels.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Sure. Thank you.

Based on your answer, how has the department been impacted by change, by the changing dynamics of search and rescue at the Coast Guard? Can you give a bit of an overview to the committee? Are those demands increasing what the Coast Guard has to prepare for?

How have the demands that you're experiencing in the areas of conservation and protection changed? We're in the technological age, and I take it the whole issue of illegal fishing is having an impact. The days of the traditional conservation officer coming out in uniform and visiting may have changed.

Could you just brief the committee on how your department is reacting to those changes?

[Annette Gibbons]

Sure. I'll give you a couple of examples on the Coast Guard.

Certainly, we're trying to spend more time in the Arctic, both as an expression of sovereignty and also as engagement with the communities in the Arctic and the economic interests of the people who live in the Arctic, so having the capacity to break ice, be present in the Arctic and do our research in DFO more months of the year is one change.

Also, we're just really making sure that we have vehicles that are fit for different purposes. Hence the multi-purpose vehicle, which is able to do a variety of different things, including breaking ice.

In terms of change and technology with our conservation protection function, one of the things we've had great success with—and I believe the committee heard about it recently—is our dark vessel detection platform, a piece of technology that we developed and are deploying with other countries around the world to be able to monitor illegal fishing on the high seas and close to different countries' shores. We recently signed an agreement with the Philippines to that effect, for them to deploy the dark vessel platform.

That's one example of how we're using that, and the department, like all departments these days, is looking at, as an example, how to deploy AI effectively in terms of our various functions, in terms of our corporate functions, HR, finance. That's something that we're of course at the beginning of but doing work on as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We'll go now to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us. I very much appreciate their presence.

I understand that the exercise is never simple, because their department is big and complicated. I take note of that every day.

I want to talk to you about the shrimp harvesters who are eagerly—I would now say “desperately”—waiting to hear from your department with respect to the moratorium, the closure, or possible sad news.

First of all, we'd like the answer to come quickly. Having said that, have you included in your appropriations any support for these fishers, aside from employment insurance? Not everyone is eligible for employment insurance.

Will your decision, which could be dramatic for these fishers, be supported in any way?

[Annette Gibbons]

We're studying the shrimp fishery. This year, we've intensified our scientific discussions with shrimp harvesters to be able to make a decision more quickly for the 2024 season. We will also be meeting with the fishers later this week.

As you know, Fisheries and Oceans Canada offers a lot of programs for various fishing groups. We're working with Quebec and our colleagues in other federal departments to find the best ways to support fishers. Fisheries and Oceans Canada is studying the measures that could be used to support fishers once the decision on the 2024 fishing season has been made.

If the situation makes it difficult to pay for the usual expenses related to this fishery, such as gas, we will put measures in place to provide a little more flexibility. We're also looking at how fishers can work together. One thing we've done is introduce a buddy system.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

When the cod fishery closed, support was provided to fishers. I think that the shrimp industry is a similar disaster, but it mainly affects Quebec.

I am the spokesperson for Quebec fishers, and it's a world I truly love. I was born on an island and I understand what it's like to make a living fishing.

Are you considering a specific measure for Quebec's fisheries? It's not that the fishers in other regions aren't fine people, but this specifically affects the fishers in Quebec. I know there are other options. I know, for example, that there's an application for a redfish licence.

Is there a way to tell the fishers who follow our work that there is hope and that we're going to do what we can to ensure predictability? As we know, we can't turn on a dime and change shrimp to redfish. It's not done on the corner of a desk; it's more complicated than that.

Can you tell them anything about that?

[Annette Gibbons]

I can't say anything this morning, but the department is assessing possible measures to support those fishers.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I thank you for that, and I hope the fishers heard you.

I will now talk about the Coast Guard. Last year, we talked about the fact that a lot of litigation has been pending for a number of years.

Have you heard of any cases being resolved? Are there any in the process of being resolved? In other cases, there is no sound and no picture. Will they finally be able to get an answer?

[Annette Gibbons]

Do you mean litigation specifically involving the Coast Guard?

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I'm talking about the Coast Guard, yes. Some people have been waiting for six or seven years.

[Annette Gibbons]

Are you talking about employees?

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Yes, that's correct.

I wasn't very clear, and I apologize for that.

[Annette Gibbons]

Okay.

There has been progress in terms of employee disputes or grievances that were filed several years ago, but I can't speak to specific cases. One of the priorities is to resolve these cases. I think progress has been made in that regard.

Mr. Henderson, do you want to add anything?

[Chris Henderson, Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard]

Yes, thank you.

It's true that a number of cases have been resolved. In the department, approximately 1,800 such cases are underway. In terms of the Coast Guard, there are about 650. We are working closely with the unions to negotiate timelines and to put systems in place to improve processes.

It is true that some cases go further back, but we have established priorities. We prioritize issues related to pay, harassment and violence. We're working hard, in close cooperation with the unions, to improve the overall situation.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less.