Evidence of meeting #91 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishery.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
They have, certainly, for eight years.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
12:20 p.m.
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
Their response has been that they intend to enforce the law and move forward on it, but we don't see the results. We see only the statements, but those don't result in effective law enforcement in St. Peter's Bay and St. Marys Bay.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
If indeed this is the case, what is the end result of IUU fishing going to be for the lobster industry in the Maritimes?
12:20 p.m.
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
I think the results are already becoming evident.
We just saw the closure of one of the largest lobster processors in southwest Nova Scotia. In the media, the owners of the company said it was due to a lack of product being processed there. We're already starting to see it. We've seen a decline in catches over the last six or seven years in St. Marys Bay and all across southwest Nova Scotia. The fishing industry is starting to draw a link between this and the incredible amount of lobster being removed out of season, as well as damage to the breeding stock resource.
The long-term consequences are.... The fact is, the lobster fishery is the economic backbone of Nova Scotia. It's by far the most important industry. It's the same in Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick, too. It's incredibly important to our economies, and to coastal communities, both indigenous and non-indigenous. Anything that endangers the resource needs to be taken seriously by the department.
Conservation needs to come first, and ideology and politics after.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
I heard you say that DFO officials put out a press release or spoke to the media in early July, talking about their capabilities—that they're able to enforce the law.
Do you think they have the capabilities? Do you think DFO is committing the resources to C and P that it needs to, in order to enforce the law?
12:20 p.m.
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
No, they are certainly not. We've seen a big decline in DFO's enforcement presence on the water in the Maritimes. Local DFO officers relate to us that, frequently, they can't mount patrols because of staffing and fuel budgets, or the availability of vessels.
However, in terms of what's taking place in St. Marys Bay, it's not about assets. It's about intent and willingness.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Would you like to elaborate on that a little, Mr. Sproul?
12:20 p.m.
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
Yes. Certainly, there are reasonable enforcement tactics that could end out-of-season fishing, which we've pushed for very strongly.
The year before last, we saw more C and P concentration in terms of going after the market for illegal product. If the market is removed, the fisheries will end. We think it's an easy way to deal with the problem.
I also think it revealed the ineptitude of the department in preventing the fishing from taking place in the first place. The summer before last, we saw some huge seizures of lobster by the department—hundreds of crates at the border and the airport. It revealed the magnitude of the fishery. This year, we didn't see those seizures taking place, but we know the lobsters were still coming out of the water.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Why do you think there would have been a difference in the C and P effort from 2022 to this past year? What do you think went on there?
12:20 p.m.
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
I can't speak for the department, but from the perspective of our members, it's that the enforcement activities taking place on the marketplace side of the problem were revealing the magnitude of the fishery. It's very hard for the department, on one hand, to say that an illegal fishery is not taking place and, on the other hand, to make seizures of hundreds of thousands of pounds of lobsters in Nova Scotia.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
You have only 10 seconds, Mr. Small. You'll hardly get a question out, being from Newfoundland. I'm from there, too, so we'll go on to the next questioner.
Mr. Hardie, go ahead for six minutes or less, please.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McIsaac, do you care to add anything to Mr. Sproul's testimony so far?
12:25 p.m.
Coordinator, BC Commercial Fishing Caucus
I would say that you just have to look at what's going on with the salmon in British Columbia, and that's what to expect in your lobster fishery, if the same kind of approach is taken.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Complementary enforcement.... Yes, we talk about DFO and what they do or don't do out on the water. To both of you, do you see the need for, or do you see evidence of, the complementary enforcement on the buyers or the processors? Does FINTRAC start to monitor money exchanges, etc.? Is any of that going on?
We'll start with you, Mr. Sproul.
12:25 p.m.
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
Starting back in 2016, fishery organizations in the Maritimes came together in Sambro, Nova Scotia. We tried to bring relevant government departments to bear on the issue: CFIA, CBSA, DFO—
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I'll ask for a relatively short answer, because I have more questions.
12:25 p.m.
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
Okay. I would say that there's a lot of room for the government to improve, with collaboration between the relevant agencies, to stop the movement of the product from Nova Scotia to the marketplace.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Do the processors know what they're dealing with when this stuff comes in for them to process?
12:25 p.m.
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
I think sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't, depending on how many hands it has passed through. Certainly, when the product is being landed in massive quantities out of season, there has to be a recognition by the processors that it's unlawfully harvested.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Mr. McIsaac, out on the west coast, is the issue generally perceived to be too small a deal, and maybe, is it too dangerous to enforce?
12:25 p.m.
Coordinator, BC Commercial Fishing Caucus
I don't think it's too small of a deal. The entire salmon fishery is pretty much closed here. There's very little commercial fishery left on our coast. The largest processor in North America has closed shop in Prince Rupert. There is no processing and no canning of salmon here anymore, except for one very small processor on the island.
We're a shadow of what we used to be as a salmon fishery.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
For about the past year, I've been a subscriber to a community fishery that we probably all know well: Skipper Otto. Is there any aspect of the community fisheries like Skipper Otto that can either open the way for the illegal fisheries or help us do something about them? Is there any reflection there, Mr. McIsaac?
12:25 p.m.
Coordinator, BC Commercial Fishing Caucus
I think it's a great example of connecting directly with legal fishing. That's a platform where independent harvesters are making a living in the face of the regulatory frame that's being put out there and the management regime that's being created here. Closing their eyes on the poaching and just focusing on legal fishing is, I would say, what C and P is doing here on our coast.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
This is a final question for both of you.
What do the first nations leadership say? Obviously, there's a big, bright light shone on those communities as being engaged in illegal fisheries. What do they say? Do we have enough clarity on indigenous rights, moderate livelihood, the FSC fishery, etc.? Are we really in a position to be really conclusive, to know when a fishery is illegal versus something they're entitled to do?
We'll start with you, Mr. Sproul.