Foreign Affairs Committee on Aug. 1st, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

At what time? When?

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

We provided that to you. We asked for Médecins sans frontières.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Wait a minute. That is an accusation that the witness list was said to be closed. That is not correct.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

You should not be debating, just listening. You're not the vice-chair, you're the chair now. Listen to the vice-chair. We don't have to provide that to your office. We provide this to the clerk's office. There's a very big difference.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

That's fine. Did you?

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

No, some other members did.

It's up to you. If you don't want these witnesses to appear, go ahead, it's your decision.

You have a motion on the table, and the motion must go on. Let's vote on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We also have a speaker's list.

Mr. Obhrai.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I heard from the other side about a gentleman's agreement, and I heard from the NDP that these are government witnesses. Let me tell you as a member of this committee that I have not submitted any names. I have not been involved in any of these things. I genuinely came here. There is a motion here, and we are looking at it.

I don't know where you are getting the idea that these are government witnesses and that we've called them in. I want to put on the record very clearly that I as the government did not call any witnesses. This went out, people wanted to come, and the witnesses are here.

As somebody who has come here to openly listen, I am saying let's listen to the witnesses. Then we can have further discussion with everybody involved.

You, Mr. Patry, talked about working together. This is what we are trying to do, but you are throwing grenades at us and telling us that we have these witnesses who somehow belong to us. Alexa McDonough is saying it. That is wrong. We did not forward any names, so let's state that very clearly.

I just want to ask, why are you afraid of hearing from them?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We'll come back to Mr. Obhrai.

There is a point of order.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Obhrai, I never used the words “government witnesses”. I never said that.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

You said “colleagues”.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I said “colleagues”, I didn't say “government”. I just want to pinpoint that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

We will go to Madam Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I move that we proceed to committee business and I request a vote. I request a majority vote, because the majority of those present would like to proceed with committee business. I say we vote and move along, because we're wasting time.

There are people waiting and others who want us to act. You want action? So do we. Therefore, let's get on with business. If we must vote, then so be it. Let's get on with it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

That is exactly the point of debate, Madam Mourani, and we have a speaker's list to that point.

The next one is Madam McDonough.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Chairman, I'm concerned. There are people in this room who were told that the committee list was closed before there was any assurance by the committee that we had balance and diversity and representativeness in the lineup of witnesses. When I called to register my objection, I made it very clear that the process had not taken place, that there'd been no consultation, and that there was a responsibility for the committee to assure there was balance and diversity in the selection of witnesses.

Personally, I'm distressed that you would say, rather boastfully, well, I didn't know who they were or where they were from or anything else. Yet you agreed to the closing of the list.

When I called, I pleaded not to close the list, but here we are. The list was never expanded beyond what it was. Yet we are told this isn't a violation of the normal practices and responsibility of the multi-party committee to ensure that there is balance, representativeness, and diversity.

If it's not the chair who has decided to act unilaterally, taking some responsibility for this, then who does he think should take responsibility? Other members of the committee are saying that they are taking some responsibility. That's why we're in this discussion. That's why we think we should go immediately to committee business, deal with it, and conduct our committee the way the committee decides it wants to be conducted.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madam McDonough, I want to clarify something you said. You said it was indicated that the witness list was closed. From what I am told from the clerk's office, that did not happen. What they were told was that the list is full for today, and as I understand the clerk, she is still keeping track--

[An hon. member]

You don't have the authority to make that decision.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

There is a roomful of people who were told it was closed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Okay, and that witness list is still being taken down. She has taken those names.

The responsibility of the clerk's office is to make sure that we have witnesses for the meetings that are being called today. The witness list was full for today. All right?

She told them yesterday. It wasn't last week. You had five days to put forward the letters, which you did, and those witness lists could have come forward as well.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I phoned on Friday, the moment I saw that list--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Yes, you did.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

--and said groups had been told it's closed. That's not acceptable--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

No, they were not.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

--and I was asking you to give assurances that this would not be the case, however long it took.

I argue that we should meet for at least the rest of today, into the night and tomorrow as well, to accommodate a broader diversity, a more representative range of witnesses.

But I think it's somewhat tragic, given the severity of what's happening in the Middle East, that as an all-party committee we can't come to an agreement. It would be great if it could be unanimous; otherwise, I think democracy still exists in this committee. The majority of committee members should decide how we want to conduct our business from here on, for the rest of the afternoon. Why don't we go to a vote and do that before we look as though we aren't actually concerned about the real issue at hand?