Evidence of meeting #34 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was democracy.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Diane Éthier  Full professor, Department of Political Science, University of Montreal

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Committee, we'll call this meeting to order.

This is the 34th meeting of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. We are continuing in our study of democratic development today. This committee, over the past ten or eleven months, has undertaken a study, first of all, on how we deliver our developmental aid, our humanitarian aid, around the world, and this fall we moved into more of a comprehensive study on democratic development and Canada's role in support of democratic development.

We're very pleased to have with us today, from the University of Montreal, Ms. Diane Éthier, a full professor in the department of political science. We welcome you here.

We want to apologize for being late today. Every once in a while in the House of Commons we have what we call votes. Sometimes we know they're coming, and sometimes when we invite our witnesses we're unaware that there will be a vote that day. The good news is that the votes are completed, the committee is here, and we're looking forward to what you have to say, Madame Éthier.

3:50 p.m.

Diane Éthier Full professor, Department of Political Science, University of Montreal

I would like to thank the committee for having invited me to speak about democratic development. However, I must say that Ms. Crandall did not give me much information about the subject I am to address. I looked at the questions which the committee studied on this issue. Of course, I cannot answer every question. I will therefore give a brief presentation on the main subject of my research over the last six years, namely the effectiveness of strategies to promote democracy. As you will see, democracy assistance programs, or democracy promotion strategies, only represent one aspect of the issue, but it might be interesting to compare this approach to others.

Since the end of the Second World War, three strategies were used to either help countries complete the transition from authoritarianism to democracy, or to consolidate their democratic system by various means, such as improving the governance of public administrations, strengthening the rule of law, decentralizing the powers of the central government, developing a civil society, extending rights to minorities, fighting corruption, and so on.

The first of these strategies is control, that is, the imposition of democracy on a country by foreign authorities, which is achieved unilaterally or with the help of certain domestic political actors following the country's military occupation of its territory.

The second strategy is conditionality. In its positive form, conditionality means that a country is obliged to implement a democratic system, or to consolidate such a system, before receiving help such as economic assistance, debt reduction or renegotiation, admission to an international organization, and so on. In its negative form, this approach might impose sanctions on a country such as an embargo, suspending its membership to an international organization, and so on, and to see these sanctions lifted, it must adopt democratic change.

The third strategy is the one based on incentives. Under this strategy, a country might freely receive different forms of assistance or other types of advantages to encourage it to implement or consolidate a democratic system.

Let's look at the effectiveness of each of these strategies. The control approach has been applied fairly frequently in recent history. After the Second World War, this strategy was used by the Americans and their allies in Japan, South Korea, Germany, Italy and Austria, and by the British, when many of their former colonies, in the Caribbean and in Southeast Asia, gained independence. Since the end of the 1980s, this strategy was used by the United States in Panama; by the European Union, NATO and the UN in Bosnia and Kosovo, and by the Americans and their allies in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Until now, no study has attempted to evaluate the effectiveness of imposing democracy on these countries. However, we personally conducted a preliminary investigation of some of these situations over the last few months in order to prepare a research project which we have submitted to the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada. We have drawn three lessons, or teachings, from this preliminary evaluation.

First, democracy imposed by foreign authorities only developed or flourished in countries which had already achieved an advanced level of social and economic modernization when the foreign powers intervened. This was the case of Germany, Austria and Italy. This approach also worked in countries which modernized rapidly through massive investment and social and economic reform imposed by the occupying forces. This happened in Japan.

Second lesson. In situations where foreign powers occupied an underdeveloped country over a long period of time, which created a culture of compromise and cooperation with the country's political elites, the control approach allowed for the creation of a minimal but sustainable democracy. For instance, this was the case in the former British colonies in the West Indies, or in hybrid but stable regimes such as Singapore or Malaysia.

Third lesson: in traditional societies marked by a culture of clans and ethnic, religious and political conflict, and where the imposition of democracy by foreign powers is fairly recent, and where development investment by the international community is also recent and insufficient—we need look no further than Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq—the control approach has failed. Not only do the rules of minimal democracy not exist, namely the possibility for all adult citizens to choose their leaders in free, fair and open elections in which political parties can freely compete for votes because basic civil and political liberties are respected, but there is no rule of law of any kind in those countries.

Let us now look at conditionality. Political conditionality, in its positive form, has only been applied by the European Union/Community in situations relating specifically to the admission of less developed European countries, such as Greece, Spain and Portugal; countries of Central and Eastern Europe, and Turkey; and western Balkan countries, which have been become more stable by virtue of their association with the European Union/Community. In fact, when true conditionality is applied, a country knows it will lose out on promised advantages if it refuses to submit to prescribed obligations. But membership in the European Union/Community is the only situation in which the member countries of an international organization are unanimous in the application of sanctions because of these countries' high degree of integration. It is in everyone's interest to avoid the high cost of admitting new members who are unable to respect the democratic rules of the game.

As for association or cooperation agreements with third countries not eligible for EU membership, the EU has been unable to apply true political conditionality because of the divergent interests of member countries. Although most of these agreements now include democratic provisions calling for sanctions, these provisions are not implemented or are applied partially or unevenly.

Studies assessing the effectiveness of political conditionality as it applies to membership in the European Union are unanimous. Conditionality was the decisive factor which led to the fall of dictatorships in Greece, Spain and Portugal. It was also the determining factor which led to the consolidation of new democracies in countries in Central and Eastern Europe. The effectiveness of conditionality in the European Union has also been demonstrated in the case of Turkey, which implemented significant democratic reforms after it was given official candidate status for membership in 1999, and in the case of Croatia, which, between 2003 and 2005, brought about the required political change under the stabilization and association process leading to negotiations for full membership.

There are two theories which explain why conditionality works well in the European Union situation. The first one is the theory of realism. Candidate countries meet the requirements set by Brussels because the promised benefits are crucial; these countries have no alternative but to submit, and they are aware that EU members are determined to withhold any benefits in cases of non-compliance. There are also other reasons why countries want to engage in pre-membership reforms. There are, first of all, generous assistance incentive programs, such as PHARE, TAIEX and Twinning. Also, reforms are closely monitored by the commission, and there are institutional partnerships to help candidate countries with the planning and implementation of reforms.

Under the second theory, the constructivist theory, the political elites of candidate countries engage in pre-membership reforms not because it is in their interest to do so, but because they share the same democratic values and standards which lie at the heart of the legal and institutional reforms required by the European Union. However, the mixed success of the EU's stabilization and association process in the Balkans indicates that the prospect of membership, the assistance programs, the monitoring and institutional partnerships, are not enough to convince the political elites of some countries to proceed with democratic reform.

Since 2000, neither Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, nor Albania have managed to bring about the reforms which will lead to negotiations on membership. These conclusions tend to corroborate the relevancy of the constructivist theory and the modernization theory. When the dominant political party culture is based on undemocratic values, such as clan mentality, ultra-nationalism, authoritarianism, clientelism, due, but not exclusively, to that country's backward economic and social situation, conditionality does not really work.

I will conclude with the third strategy. Assistance incentive programs promoting democratic development are nothing new, but their number has increased exponentially since the end of the cold war. Many international organizations such as the OSCE, the Council of Europe, the EBRD, the Organization of American States, the African Union, the European Union, the UN, the aid agencies of the 14 main OECD donor countries, and thousands of NGOs largely founded by western governments, have invested money, time and people in these programs.

However, it remains difficult to measure the effectiveness of these programs, since very few of these organizations actually assessed them. Only the United States Agency of International Development has been conducting evaluations since 1994 because it was forced to do so by Congress. But researchers from some universities and private foundations, such as the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, have evaluated the effectiveness of some of the programs implemented by the European Council, the OSCE, the Stability Pact for Southeastern Europe and American NGOs. Their conclusions were unanimous: on the whole, the outcomes of the programs were very modest, even nil, for the following reasons.

First, the aid given to beneficiary countries was only relatively important to them because it is limited and has in fact been decreasing since 1990. Also, it can easily be replaced by other sources of revenue.

Second, the threat of suspending, reducing and cancelling assistance is not credible in the eyes of beneficiary countries, since the threat of sanctions is rarely carried out because of the conflict of interests and ideological differences which exist between the various donor countries, and, within some donor countries, between different government departments, aid agencies and NGOs.

I know what I am talking about. Between 1992 and 1995, I gave training to CIDA employees on the World Bank's conditional aid policy. I became aware of the high degree of conflict within CIDA, and between CIDA and the Department of Foreign Affairs, as far as this very policy was concerned. There is no consensus. Indeed, this situation is not unique to Canada, as it exists in many donor countries. I have done some research about this situation in Sweden, Denmark, France and the Netherlands.

I might add that professor Stephen Brown, from the University of Ottawa, did his doctorate on aid to African countries, and he concluded that sanctions were actually imposed on only two countries, mainly Kenya and Malawi, because they had not applied the democratic reforms required by aid agencies. In his view, no sanctions have ever been imposed on any other African countries.

Thomas Carothers, who is one of the most important practitioners and evaluators of American democratic development programs, and who works for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, agrees with these conclusions, but does make a few distinctions. In his most recent book on the subject, entitled Critical Mission, which was published in 2004, he stigmatizes development assistance programs in civil societies, but recognizes that the monitoring of elections and strengthening the rule of law can make a big different on the condition that the programs be redirected.

Since I don't have much time, I'm going to do a brief summary of his main findings regarding these three types of democratic assistance programs.

Programs that seek to develop an organized civil society, according to Carothers, don't contribute to the establishment or consolidation of democracy, for one thing because civil society is made up of all kinds of people, including criminal and delinquent networks, so there's no guarantee of democratization. In other words, the importance of civil society as an agent for democratic development should not be overestimated.

He then says that in a number of countries, NGOs working on the development of civil society are in most cases western NGOs with no links to local NGOs. They are very often concentrated in the capital of the country and develop links with other western NGOs. They are largely funded by their own government, so that very often, the policy they promote in the host country is the policy of their own government. So it's not unbiased democratic development. In some cases, this situation leads to conflict with the government of the host country, which sees NGOs as organizations doing propaganda and advocacy on behalf of their own country of origin.

Surely you've heard that Freedom House released a report this year on the increasingly critical situation for American NGOs in a number of countries. They are considered undesirable since becoming actively involved in, for example, the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, the Rose Revolution in Georgia and the revolution in Kirghizistan. It's a very delicate and very complex situation.

The third reason Carothers gives for criticizing civil society development programs is that in the case of dictatorships, NGOs often promote calls for democracy that jeopardize the safety of citizens and that actually lead to crackdowns by the regimes in power. So it's often a counterproductive exercise.

According to Carothers and many other writers, election observing is a more effective way of defending democracy, if it reveals fraud before or during the election and reinforces the process in countries in transition toward democracy. However, only governments or international organizations that send competent and experienced observers out into the field well before the election and keep them there until the official results are published — which takes a long time in some countries — are in a position to influence the process.

Carothers is critical of the fact that there are more and more amateurs observing elections in the field. He names the organizations he feels are best equipped to observe elections effectively. They are: Carter Center; International Foundation for Election Systems; Democracy Promotion Unit of the OAS; United Nations Electoral Assistance Unit; Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Unfortunately, Elections Canada is not on the list.

The last type of program I wanted to talk to you about is promotion of the rule of law. This is considered positive in itself, but its effectiveness is diminished by the clear lack of understanding among external actors.

People often think, wrongly, that an attempt to pattern the operation of the court system in target countries on that of western countries will improve the rule of law. However, a law-abiding public depends less on the competence and effectiveness of judges — which can actually lead to overly expeditious justice that hurts the public but helps an authoritarian government — than on the public perception of the legitimacy of legislation, which is largely tied to their perception of the operation of political institutions.

This finding means that it might be better to work on expanding the representativeness of political systems, to increase the legitimacy of democracy from the standpoint of the public and cause them to become more law-abiding, than to invest a lot of money in improvements to the operation of the court system.

That is ultimately the message of Carothers and other writers.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Excuse me, Madame. Can you give me a little bit of an idea of how much of the presentation you have left?

4:15 p.m.

Full professor, Department of Political Science, University of Montreal

Diane Éthier

Two seconds.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

I'll grant you two seconds.

Go ahead. We're at 21 minutes, and I just wanted to make sure. I don't want to cut you short.

4:15 p.m.

Full professor, Department of Political Science, University of Montreal

Diane Éthier

I can stop here if you want.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

No, you continue and finish. It's just so we have a little bit of an idea.

4:15 p.m.

Full professor, Department of Political Science, University of Montreal

Diane Éthier

To conclude, the results of democracy promotion strategies tend to confirm the basic point of democratization theory for over 50 years.

Democracy is a domestic affair par excellence.

Although the more forcible strategies, like control and conditionality, are more effective than incentives, their success depends either on favourable economic, social, political and cultural conditions in the target countries or on the creation of those conditions through massive investment and judicious and targeted intervention over a long or very long period of time.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much, Madame Éthier.

We'll go into the first round of questions, beginning with Mr. Patry.

You have seven minutes.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Éthier, thank you very much. That was very interesting. It is like being back in school. Your presentation was fascinating.

You told us about the controlled experience, about “successes” in some countries, where democracy was imposed or had already reached an economic and social level. You also talked about underdeveloped countries that were under foreign occupation for a long time, which enabled them to develop a political elite. That did work in some places, like the Caribbean. Then you talked about traditional societies such as those we are seeing now, clan-based societies like in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries.

You also talked about political conditionality in terms of two theories: realistic and constructive. You also discussed the role of NGOs and were a bit critical, in a way, of their role. You talked about observing elections and training judges. At the end, you said:

Democracy is a domestic affair par excellence.

What can be done in the case of a country like Haiti, which is a case we have studied? I have been to Haiti a number of times. It is clear that everything has to be started over, rebuilt from scratch.

You talked about training judges. Haiti is governed by the Napoleonic Code of 1821, which has never been amended. In rape cases and some other cases, DNA evidence is inadmissible in court because the code has not been amended. In addition, 90% of newly elected parliamentarians have no political experience.

In a country like Haiti, where Canada wants to play an active role in improving things, how can we get involved without having to go back to square one, in two, three or four years, with a new president?

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. Patry.

Madame Éthier.

4:15 p.m.

Full professor, Department of Political Science, University of Montreal

Diane Éthier

I am not very familiar with Haiti. I remember when I was a CIDA consultant from 1992 to 1995, people were already asking what we could do in Haiti. Back then, I was already quite familiar with the democratization process, so I told people at CIDA that whatever type of intervention Canada made in Haiti, I would not be too confident about the results. Unfortunately, over 10 years later, the facts have borne out my pessimism. What can I say?

Canada cannot be stopped from trying to improve the situation, perhaps for political reasons: the Haitian community in Canada is large. That does not concern me, but as an expert on democracy, I have to tell it like it is. Domestic conditions—economic, social, cultural and political conditions—in Haiti are hostile to democratic development, and even if the international community intervenes, it will not be able to change those conditions, unless it invests very heavily for a very long period of time.

The examples I give in my text are the former British colonies. Great Britain—its qualities versus other colonial powers must be recognized—managed to create conditions in a number of its colonies that were favourable to the establishment of democratic regimes; that lasted for decades and decades. Take India, for example. In 1880, England started teaching the Indian elite about local democracy, and in 1949, when India gained its independence, the Indian elite knew the rules of democracy, agreed with them and wanted them put in place. But it took 70 years.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

In practical terms, where do we start in Haiti? Do we start with good governance, with the Parliament? We, parliamentarians, want to help the Parliament in order to help the parliamentarians. However, if we don't want to be pessimistic and if you were a consultant to our committee—because you are a consultant today—what recommendations would you suggest we make to our government?

4:20 p.m.

Full professor, Department of Political Science, University of Montreal

Diane Éthier

I would study the situation in Haiti before. For the time being, I don't have a good understanding of Haiti, so I don't want to—

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

I understand.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Mr. Wilfert for two minutes.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have a quick question. The Federation of Canadian Municipalities has proposed a global program for local governance with CIDA. Essentially, we often talk about democratic development where we see a top-down approach, where we elect the president, we have a parliament or a congress, but we really don't try to nurture at the local level the roots to have a successful democratic development. Canada was involved in the commune elections in Cambodia, as an example, in the early 1990s. But this program, the global program for local governance, is to really have a systematic approach to work with local NGOs, local individuals, to make sure that in fact it is nurtured, that the resources are applied, etc.

You may not be familiar with the proposal, but just in terms of the general approach to democratic governance, I wondered if you could give us your comments.

4:20 p.m.

Full professor, Department of Political Science, University of Montreal

Diane Éthier

You're asking for my opinion on local governance and local democracy programs. In an article I published in 2003 in Democratization magazine, I examined CIDA's programs in Southeast Asia and the Philippines, where local democracy programs had been established on a few occasions.

The problem is that CIDA doesn't evaluate the impact of those programs. There was no document at CIDA to indicate whether that had produced any results or whether the situation was better than before. The only indicator I had was Freedom House, which tracks the progress of civil and political liberties in countries. I have to say that unfortunately, the score given by Freedom House was no better than before in the case of the Philippines and other countries that had been targeted for CIDA's local governance programs.

So, obviously, we can't draw any conclusions based just on the Freedom House reports, but that's all we have to go on. So, it's very difficult for experts to answer, because there has been no evaluation of those programs. As I said, there is just the United States Agency for International Development that has done evaluations because the US Congress required it to do so in 1994. There too, their work was criticized. I have published articles on that. There are limits to the USAID evaluations because there aren't enough experts going into the field, and they only stay for three weeks, which isn't long enough, and they don't meet with enough local stakeholders. So, the USAID evaluations could be better, but at least they are better than what CIDA is doing, which is no evaluation.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Madame Éthier.

I'll go to the Bloc.

Ms. Barbot and Ms. Bourgeois, you have seven minutes.

And they will split.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to be very brief because Mr. Patry asked the question I wanted to ask.

Thank you for coming to meet with us, Ms. Ethier, even though your comments are rather alarming, although they do echo some ideas we've heard discussed for a very long time. If international aid worked, countries would have moved beyond underdevelopment a long time ago. However, underdevelopment is being mass-produced.

I was in Rwanda in 1980 when all of the international organizations were there, and the only thing growing was the number of employees of international organizations. So, even if what you have to say is hard to listen to, I think that basically, we have to admit that as it is currently designed, aid doesn't work very well.

I suppose it's no coincidence that the model you presented as a model that might be successful under certain circumstances is conditionality, which worked in some European countries.

That said, what has to be done? I know the question is a broad one.

4:25 p.m.

Full professor, Department of Political Science, University of Montreal

Diane Éthier

As I said, conditionality is virtually exclusively used by the European Union, as, for two reasons, it is the only entity that can use it.

The first reason for this is that the European Union offers candidate countries an incredible reward—accession to the EU—in return. Such a reward is of crucial, unrivalled importance to candidate countries—they could wish for no better outcome than EU membership.

The second reason is that all EU member states are committed to denying membership to candidate countries that do not comply with the requisite democratic reforms. It is easy to understand why: were the EU to grant membership to a country that did not respect the rules of democracy, all member states would be penalized and would suffer the consequences—and the candidate countries know it. Nevertheless, the European Union is not the only entity that can use conditionality.

As I said earlier, negative conditionality can also be used. Take the example of the Commonwealth. Former Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney played an instrumental role in convincing the Commonwealth to impose an embargo on South Africa so that it would end apartheid and embrace democracy. I remember that it took months for Prime Minister Mulroney to convince the other Commonwealth countries to impose the embargo. It was in the interest of some Commonwealth countries not to sanction South Africa. Negotiations were long, but when a unanimous position was reached, the embargo proved effective.

It can prove very effective when a group of countries are able to agree on offering a coveted reward or imposing a very harsh punishment. However, diverging interests make it very difficult to reach unanimous agreement amongst countries.

The European Union is, of course, a unique entity. It has adopted economic, monetary and even policy integration and, as such, is unique. Some argue that it is comparable with NAFTA, but I disagree. NAFTA and the European Union are not comparable—they are completely different.

In conclusion, conditionality is an effective tool, but one which we cannot use.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Madame.

Madame Bourgeois.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Éthier, I found your presentation extremely interesting, but, unfortunately, we do not have a written copy.

Would it be possible for the clerk to send us your speaking notes?

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Madame, we do have the document in French, and it will be translated and circulated to all our members.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Excellent.

Aside from that, we do not have much information on your background. I have just found out that you used to work for CIDA.

That is of great interest to me because we went to Scandinavia and Great Britain in October. This gave us the opportunity to speak with people such as yourself who are carrying out research into the ways and means of introducing democracy.

Looking through my notes, I see that you are the fifth person today who has told us that democracy cannot be imposed.

I am going to ask you the same question that I always ask our witnesses. To your mind, what are the steps involved in a best-practice model for introducing democracy?