Evidence of meeting #54 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghan.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Seema Patel  Lead Project Consultant, Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington, D.C.)

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Good morning, committee.

This is meeting 54 of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, on Tuesday, May 8, 2007. I just want to let our committee know that at 11 o'clock there is another committee coming in here, so we want to be as prompt as possible.

In our first hour we're going to continue with our briefings from Afghanistan.

Our witnesses this morning are from the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. We have Seema Patel, lead project consultant on the post-conflict reconstruction project; and Steven Ross, a research consultant on the post-conflict reconstruction project.

In our second hour we're going to go into our draft report on democratic development. We also want to save a few moments at the end of the second hour for some committee business.

Welcome to our guests today. We're looking forward to hearing from you. We had a little chance to chat just before the committee started. As you know, this is a fairly regular review of what's happening in Afghanistan, from many different perspectives. We certainly look forward to what you have for us today. As I mentioned to you, we look forward to your opening comments and then we will go into the first round of questioning. We will conclude this at about two minutes to ten o'clock.

So welcome, and the time is yours.

9:05 a.m.

Seema Patel Lead Project Consultant, Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington, D.C.)

First off, I'd like to thank the chairman and the committee for the opportunity to come here and speak with you today to share the results of some of the work we've been doing within my organization.

In my opinion, Canada's mission in Afghanistan is critical to success in Afghanistan. I would also take a moment to thank the Canadian people for the commitment they have made in the country. I do appreciate that there's ongoing controversy and some debate here in Ottawa and across the country about Canada's role in the country. I hope that my testimony, which is derived from an independent assessment of progress, will provide this committee and other Canadians with valuable insights into Afghan experiences with the reconstruction and development efforts, with the security efforts, as well as highlight some steps that we believe will be critical to ensure that Afghanistan remains on a path of recovery.

I will be speaking to you as an expert from CSIS, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and although it's based in the U.S., I want to highlight that it is an independent organization. It's independent of the U.S. government and its interests. Our mission at the post-conflict reconstruction team is to advance global security and prosperity by offering strategic insights to the issues that policy-makers will need to work on in order to fight for a more peaceful world. Therefore, when I say “we” in the rest of my comments, I'm referring to the international community, the larger groups of players that are involved in Afghanistan.

Our team at CSIS works to address three chronic challenges the international community faces in post-conflict missions. First, we attempt to anticipate better by improving our analysis and understanding the context and improving our preparation.

Second, once the international community decides to intervene, we develop more integrated strategies by forcing ourselves to make clear choices and by setting priorities.

Third, CSIS attempts to improve on the nature of international communities' reporting of the mission. More often than not, we find that UN agencies, NGOs, our governments, report on a wide range of successes in their projects, yet the country they're working in might be faced with overwhelming pessimism and negative momentum.

We'd like to talk about the money spent, the number of projects completed, and grand plans for social transformation, rather than outcomes and the real results of our efforts on the local beneficiaries.

The CSIS measure-of-progress model, which we applied in Afghanistan in 2005 and again in 2006, attempts to address this problem of imperfect information by combining sources and measuring impact from the perspective of the local communities.

We take all the polls and focus groups that are conducted by a number of organizations, we take daily news reporting from in the country and around the world, official documents and releases, and then complement them with hundreds of interviews that we conduct in the field, as well as 1,000 structured conversations with the local population.

Once all this data is collected, we crunch it in numerous ways to gain regional and strategic insights, demographic insights, and we differentiate by pillars, such as security and governance.

In Afghanistan, we conducted our first assessment in 2005. At that time we saw that Afghanistan had crawled out of its subterranean existence of 2001 and was at its best point in decades. There was a hopefulness about the new leader, the return of millions of refugees, successful fighting of a brief war, and construction of many new facilities, including schools, roads. Through this time, the international community was conducting activities that it was comfortable doing, things that we knew how to do, such as conferences, elections, constitution writing, and playing a humanitarian role.

By 2005 we found that there was some tempering of hope within the Afghan population. Our recommendations at that time suggested we needed a more decentralized and entrepreneurial approach to recapture Afghan imagination and participation during the transition phase, the transition to development.

Over the past year, improvements have been made in certain areas, such as health, communication, economic growth, women's empowerment, public participation, and private investment. Yet the most critical challenges from the beginning of the intervention, such as pervasive corruption, the role of warlords, the economy's poppy dependence, chronic poverty, and electricity scarcity remain.

Our findings this year show that Afghan ability to meet their needs and interests has not improved despite more money spent, projects implemented, and time passed. The government is perceived to be less legitimate and less capable. Overall, Afghans are worried about their public safety and losing confidence in the new order. They wonder when they will see the benefits promised to them in 2001.

It's not that Afghans think that all is lost; rather it's more uncertainty about who will win and real intimidation on the ground, and therefore a return to Afghans finding a way to make it on their own, to self-protect, and to disengage from the national processes and initiatives that the international community is organizing. This all becomes a problem for restarting the nation.

Last year's negative trends, we believe, can be turned around. Securing Afghans is going to be the priority. Public safety has deteriorated since 2006 due to the violence surrounding the insurgency, the inability of the Afghan government to combat crime, local commanders, warlords, and abusive and corrupt elements within the new order, including government officials and the police.

The insurgency has gained momentum, as you know, in the south and east over 2006. They're comprised of a diverse group of anti-government elements, but it is the Mullah Omar-led Taliban, that faction with its charismatic leadership, its tribal connections, that serves as the greatest strategic threat. They are waging an effective campaign to expose and exploit government weaknesses, our own mistakes, and to win hearts and minds.

The ordinary Afghan is feeling caught among the Taliban, the military operations, and corrupt government officials; all sides are threatening their safety. Freedom of movement has become more limited, and therefore access to services and economic opportunity is more difficult. New high-risk populations and displaced populations have been created by the international military operations. They're in need of humanitarian assistance and basic needs.

We found that most Afghans see the international forces as necessary to their security--necessary for stopping the insurgency and protecting villages--but rising civilian casualties, the negative effects of the eradication efforts in the country, and the garrison mentality has lost us many friends and potential partners.

With current resources, the international community is not going to be able to secure all the remote parts of Afghanistan. It can, however, focus on the centre of gravity in Helmand and Kandahar. This is where we believe the threat of the insurgency is greatest, not only because they're being bombarded daily by the repercussions of that insurgency, but also because the reverberations of what happens in Kandahar and Helmand are felt very much throughout the whole country. We found that in the north and in the west, Afghans might not have experienced direct conflict, but they had a perception that the recovery of the country was in a precarious position because of the events happening in the south and east. In addition, these two provinces are also home to 50% of the poppy growth and criminal business and include patchy government leadership.

What is needed is an improved response in a majority of the districts in these two provinces. We need to get down to the local level. The ANA and ANP, local officials, and populations will not stay and fight the better-equipped Taliban or indeed participate in the programs we are organizing through our development efforts if there is no capacity to back them up when times get tough and if there's no ability to secure them while they participate with us.

Security resources from the north and west must be diverted to the south, particularly more mobile resources, such as special operations forces and helicopters to back up your own Canadian soldiers and also the British soldiers who are engaged there. I don't think caveats are going to change any time soon, so we need to be a little bit realistic about how that can happen. There are resources in the country that are not being used effectively, that can be diverted. Recent steps such as the U.S. support of Operation Achilles and NATO soldiers who are working to secure the Kabul-Kandahar highway should serve as a precedent for greater security and coordination in this difficult area.

It's also going to be critical to secure a post-operation security presence in these districts. It must be maintained by responsibly deploying the most capable of our Afghan forces, our partners, to stay and protect those villages. The ANP, our findings show, has received particularly low marks from Afghans, and they're often labelled a source of insecurity rather than law and order. This institution will require reform before they can be deployed to stay and protect. However, the ANA does enjoy broad support from the Afghan people. They're becoming more operationally capable, and they can be used to stay and protect Afghan villages. Only with this guarantee can villagers return to the places they've been displaced from and become direct beneficiaries of development efforts.

We believe Canada is needed in the south. The issue is how to get the Canadian forces what they need from the other NATO countries to improve their response to the direct challenges the Afghans face. Insecurity and the threats made by the Taliban and criminal groups displace the partners of development, and therefore security will be critical to conducting our development work.

In the north and west we see the benefits of good security. Where there is no direct armed conflict, armed opposition to the government, the international partners and government have been able to do much more to improve Afghan lives and our development dollars have gone much further.

On the reconstruction and development front, there have been positive changes, but they've been slow to impact Afghans. We find the macroeconomic climate has improved significantly over the last year. GDP growth has increased to $6.7 billion in 2006. There has been a double-digit increase in trade and a 100% increase in government's ability to collect revenue. A number of small and medium-sized enterprises have sprung up, particularly in construction and agribusiness. The banking industry has taken off, as has the communication industry, and new foreign investment has entered the country.

However, despite these high records of GDP growth, when asked what has been the most important accomplishment of the central government, only 3% of Afghans say it has been economic growth. In essence, the improvements in the economy have not trickled down to the ordinary Afghan. Most people lack steady jobs, particularly the kind that provide a reliable income throughout the year.

Afghans remain caught in endless cycles of debt. Poverty is fuelling the anger towards the central government and motivating many young men, particularly in the south, to rearm and fight with the insurgency or with local armed groups to earn cash.

The flagship national solidarity program has brought a number of visible improvements at the village level and has allowed Afghans to participate more directly in the governance process. However, limited access to markets and credit continues to prevent the growth of licit, value-added agricultural production, and in many areas, security risks and high operating costs due to the lack of affordable infrastructure such as water and electricity and available mid-sized loans continue to frustrate Afghan businessmen and entrepreneurs.

It's our belief that reconstruction efforts to date have been too Kabul-centric. Much of this is driven by a class of Afghan leadership that is threatening the entire enterprise with exclusionary, corrupt, and controlling practices. Traditional donor constraints are also to blame. Large-scale contracting, the need for certifiable partners, dependence on central government, and the expenditure of funds has become a standard way of doing business for many donors.

We believe the best way to ensure that R and D funds go further, particularly in the tough southern provinces, is to engage ordinary Afghans, from planning to implementation. The process is as important as the programs. At various times, from shuras to micro hydro projects to informal government justice structures, Afghanistan has shown the value of local ownership.

We believe we need to seize on a venture capital model and look beyond the government for partners. We should set a three-year horizon during which 50% of the international portfolio is converted to smaller, fast-tracked grants and loans, not for more quick impact projects but to unleash Afghan entrepreneurial spirit by supporting a new class of loan and grant agents. Women's centres, business unions, NGO consortiums, community leaders, tribal elders, even cellphone dealers, are all potential partners that can use small grants of money effectively.

We should also pay the key agents of change, such as teachers and police, to create and support the Afghan middle class of the future. Lots of good things are happening around the country, but donor constraints must be re-examined and new funding and liquidity must move in the direction of real people. We can leverage existing structures. Some new government programs are working; moreover, some traditional mechanisms from the past are working and have quite a bit of legitimacy amongst the Afghan people.

We recommend expanding, scaling up, ensuring resources for the national solidarity program, and engaging the informal justice sector. We also believe we should redistribute development budgets more directly to the subnational level. All these things will push the liquidity down and decentralize it to where people can use it and be engaged.

Canada is leading by example and spending its R and D funds on projects that build loyalty and trust and are led by local people. Canada's aid agency should continue to look for more partners beyond the state--in the private sector and civil society, with traditional institutions and tribal leaders--empowering the middle class and entrepreneurs.

In Kandahar, big development projects will be difficult, given the security situation. Yet the humanitarian needs are great and are increasing with the military operations. Canada is equipped to respond, and we'd like to see it play that role.

In conclusion, we believe that Afghanistan is a very tough place to work. Even with full international support and sound policies and programs, it will likely take 10 years to get to a point of stability and recovery. Even at that time, it's likely to be a poor and very underdeveloped country. The central government will struggle to retain legitimacy, collect revenues, and extend its presence, and Afghans will continue to rely on local institutions to fill the vacuum left by the state. Neighbours are likely to continue to meddle in Afghanistan's domestic policies and economy, for better or worse.

This is a long-term project, and a long-term commitment is needed from the international community. But 2007 is a critical year. During this next year, the challenges are great. The Afghan government is losing legitimacy and is weak. Afghans are frustrated. And there is a direct challenge from an armed opposition group. Both Afghans and NATO countries are waiting to see progress before they fully commit to the long-term process.

We can turn around the negative trend lines in the next year or two, and Afghanistan can be back on the road to recovery. But our expectations have to be realistic. The primary goal in the short to medium term should be stability to a point where ordinary Afghans feel safe to invest and partner with us in the development and reconstruction projects.

Canada has played a leadership role in the country, one I would like to see more NATO countries emulate. The security and development strategy, in my opinion, is in line with what works best in Afghanistan. However, I think Canada can go one step further on the diplomatic front. The U.S. dominates the mission in Afghanistan, and it needs its allies that are committed to Afghanistan's recovery to push for better, more effective policies.

I have met officials from the Netherlands, Norway, Germany, Canada, and the U.K. who are all committed to making positive changes and to creating a unified approach to some of the tougher issues, such as the role of Pakistan and Iran, the approach to countering narcotics, short-term strategic planning, a geographic balance of reconstruction assistance, and international accountability. These officials from these countries need to be brought together and need to work together to influence U.S. and Afghan leadership. Canada, whose troops are in the most difficult area and who has respect in the U.K., the U.S., and throughout Europe, particularly for its thoughtful approach to post-conflict reconstruction, can and should play a more aggressive role on the diplomatic front. It is a critical niche role for Canada, and we would like to see more of it.

Thank you. I'm happy to take questions on any number of issues that you find pertinent.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you for your testimony.

We'll go to the first round of questioning from the official opposition.

We'll start with Mr. Patry and Mr. Wilfert, for seven minutes.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Thank you very much. I have seven minutes. I'll share my time with my colleague.

Thank you for your presentation. It's really refreshing to hear you.

You mentioned that the international community needs to do military and civilian reforms. You talked about reforms. There are over 30 provinces in Afghanistan, and the main two provinces where it is not going well are Kandahar and Helmand. I just want to know if in the rest of the country it is going better. Is it really improving over there? Canadians are in Kandahar right now. The only thing we really hear about is the Kandahar region. And within Kandahar, you mentioned, there are many sectors. Is it going as badly everywhere? Is it that there is an increase of the Taliban, or not an increase? It seems to be that the violence is focusing on these two areas where you have the crops and these things.

You mentioned the role of Pakistan. Do you really feel that if the international community was focusing on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, around the Durand Line, including the other countries surrounding Afghanistan, like Iran--and India also has a major role to play--it would help to solve the problem? Because right now, we seem to just be working on the military front and not enough on diplomacy.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. Patry.

You can have the answer, and we'll come back to Mr. Wilfert. I'll see that he gets his questions.

9:25 a.m.

Lead Project Consultant, Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington, D.C.)

Seema Patel

In the rest of Afghanistan there is relative security in the sense that there is not an armed group fighting on a daily basis. They're not large military operations. When I was travelling around, particularly in the north and west, I found that there was a lot of progress, particularly on the economic front and the development side in the north and west. I said development money can go much further in these places. By that I mean that there are more partners who are willing to work with us. I found that in the north and west there were private sector entrepreneurs, civil society, there were organizations that we could work with and involve in the process of reconstruction and development. So there has been improvement in those areas. That's not to say they don't face their own problems. In the north and west there are issues with government corruption and criminality. There are still quite a few warlords and local commanders who are able to disrupt the flow of goods and the security of places such as roads or city centres.

But in my opinion those kinds of problems can be tackled through law and order mechanisms. We need to make much more of an effort to improve the judicial sector and its ability to confront these kinds of security problems, whereas in the south and the east we need the military to confront these kinds of problems. The police and the judicial sector will not be able to confront the Taliban.

Reconstruction and development has become extremely expensive in the south and east. Over 50% is going to just maintaining the security of the development agencies. It's not at a stage where it can do large development at a relative cost. I think if we can maintain that stability, we will start to see the jump in progress that we see in the north and west.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you.

Mr. Wilfert.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I find your presentation most useful, particularly when I look at the last two paragraphs in the handout, where you mentioned that obvious new approaches are needed. You talk about the fact that incremental improvements will not be sufficient. How do we get the political buy-in both from NATO and from the Afghan government? Now that you've identified very clearly in your analysis and have had more time, I'd like to go through your graph in particular. But in terms of getting that buy-in, you say that 2007 is the critical year. You talk about a two- to three-year horizon, but the question becomes, if we don't make it through this year with the kinds of improvements that are required, we may not make that horizon. How do you get that buy-in?

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. Wilfert.

Ms. Patel.

9:30 a.m.

Lead Project Consultant, Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington, D.C.)

Seema Patel

Again, this is a role I see for Canada on the diplomatic front. I would really like to see a high-level conference take place where these middle countries come together and discuss the short-term strategy. The Afghan leadership has presented a long-term development plan but not a short-term strategy for the short to medium term. The PAG process, the policy action group, in country has provided some focusing of efforts, but if we can bring together the critical NATO countries that are involved in Afghanistan to commit to a short-term plan for dealing with the direct challenges of the Taliban and the security in the short term, then I think it can go a long way.

I think there is a willing ear. I mean, most NATO countries are looking for ideas to improve the pace of progress in the country and to improve their role. But we need to have much more coordination among NATO countries. This geographic sparsity, everybody staying in their own lane and doing well in their province or area of operations, is not going to get us to the point where Afghanistan as a whole is improving. Doing well in one province is not progress. Those negative effects of provinces that have problems do reverberate throughout the country. So there needs to be much more focusing of efforts by these NATO countries.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much.

Ms. Lalonde, you have seven minutes.

9:30 a.m.

Bloc

Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you very much for your presentation. It summarizes a number of speeches that we've heard, but it brings us back to one central question. I'm coming back to my neighbour's question.

A number of witnesses have told us about coordination. Who can ensure coordination between the NGOs and the various countries? You talk about a conference. Others have told us that it takes time to prepare for a conference of this kind, that this was not what we needed right now and that we should stay in the field because that's where you establish stability.

Isn't it NATO that should revise its strategy? In fact, the initial strategy was to assign one region to the army of one country and to its provincial reconstruction teams. Have you had any talks with NATO on this subject? Did you agree? We find your remarks very wise, but they should be heard elsewhere as well.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Madam Patel.

9:30 a.m.

Lead Project Consultant, Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington, D.C.)

Seema Patel

Coordination will take time. It is one of the biggest challenges in Afghanistan. I believe the coordination on the long-term development strategy has been quite good now that there is the ANDS and there is leadership in place that is in charge from the Afghan side, namely the ANDS secretariat, with Professor Naderi running it. That creates a plan for the international actors to support.

However, in the short term you're right that NATO is having a problem, as are other agencies and donors in the country. The question is, who owns the short-term strategy? In Afghanistan there has not been an envoy position that can sort of hold people to task and lay out the steps that need to be taken. But I find that coordination on the military front has improved greatly since ISAF has spread around the country. The PRTs are under NATO command, the soldiers are under NATO command, and that has brought a lot of focusing of the military structure.

We need that same kind of effort on the R and D front. In the country there are very few opportunities for the R and D officials from the PRTs and the various development agencies to sit together to develop a short-term strategy to attack the R and D plans or to share the analysis they each have.

If we could find ways to bring these groups together in the country, where they are closest to the people and the decisions that need to be made, I think it would be helpful. They should be structured within the NATO command. Right now all the R and D officials are taking their directions from their embassies, as opposed to jointly devising a plan with the Afghan government. There are partners within the Afghan government who can also work with this. I think the PAG process is the place to pull officials from to serve on this R and D strategic planning group.

9:35 a.m.

Bloc

Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Could it help if a UN delegate provided this coordination, as has been the case in Bosnia and elsewhere?

9:35 a.m.

Lead Project Consultant, Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington, D.C.)

Seema Patel

I think a UN delegate would have been a good idea in the early stages. At this point I'm not so sure it is a role they can play. The UN has not had the leadership role over the past five years and has kind of a small footprint in the country. For the UN to be able to hold big donors to their plan will be difficult. We see this on the police reform front, where the UN has quite good leadership on police reform--good ideas and analysis. But with the in-fighting between Germans, in a lead role, and the U.S. coming in with supplemental funding for police reform, the UN is pushed out of the process.

I think it will really require high-level diplomatic leadership from the NATO countries, either through a NATO representative or NATO with the U.S. The players that have the most money and the largest footprint need to be guiding the process and not continuously looking for somebody on the Afghanistan leadership side to provide strategic direction when times are tough. I don't believe there is that capability yet from the Afghan side.

9:35 a.m.

Bloc

Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Representatives of NGOs active in the field have told us that provincial reconstruction teams were a problem. In their view, the soldiers are excellent in doing the work they were trained to do, but, when they have to take the place of those who are used to working with people, they are not as good, less effective. They also mentioned that we should take advantage of the coming winter to transform initiatives across the board in order to give more room to the NGOs, which will be protected by the soldiers, but not in the form of provincial reconstruction teams.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Ms. Lalonde.

Ms. Patel.

9:35 a.m.

Lead Project Consultant, Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington, D.C.)

Seema Patel

Briefly, the PRT concept was to do reconstruction and development work in places where the security situation was so tough that normal traditional development and humanitarian agents could not go. It has spread across the country not quite along those lines. There continue to be PRTs in places that are relatively safe and stable and where traditional partners can engage with local communities more effectively than the PRT garrison can.

In the south and east, I think the PRTs are helpful. They need soldiers to get their aid officials out into the local communities and populations, but again, there needs to be some restructuring. Having PRTs in the provincial centre is not effective, when it is in the districts that the aid and the security situation are tough.

We need to find a way to improve—maybe through satellite offices in the south and east—the PRT concept, and expand and empower the R and D officials, who tend to form the smaller component. The PRT is more heavily weighted towards the military side. Expand the R and D officials in those areas.

I would like to see that restructuring take place, and if it does, I think it will be an effective structure to do development work.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you.

We'll move to the government side.

Mr. Khan.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Wajid Khan Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Ms. Patel.

I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Goldring, if there's any time left, so I'll be quick.

Thank you very much for an informative and useful presentation. It's one of the better ones I've listened to in a while.

You mentioned the importance of security, and I agree it's to provide security to gain support. Project ownership by the Afghans is a great idea, and it's happening through CDC as micro credit. We need to do more. You explained the complex circumstances well. Expectations are always high; they need to be realistic.

Coming to my question, in our Parliament the NDP is seeking the Canadian Forces' withdrawal immediately, and the Liberals want Canada to give a definitive withdrawal date to NATO.

I'd like to receive your comment on those two positions.

Also, what would be the impact on Afghanistan of a NATO failure?

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. Khan.

Madame Patel.

9:40 a.m.

Lead Project Consultant, Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington, D.C.)

Seema Patel

The south needs military forces. Those military forces need to be capable, effective, flexible, and adaptable to changing situations. This is a tough enemy we're fighting, and we need the type of military resources that can attack the challenge.

Canada has been extremely effective, I believe. The operations last year and this year have gone a long way in pushing back what was expected to be a very difficult spring. There have been tactical wins. We need to see NATO countries that are capable and effective do that role in the south. I realize it's a tough one that has involved a lot of sacrifices on behalf of the country, but it is one that I support and believe is necessary.

The question becomes how to get them the type of support in the south from the rest of the NATO partners, with other flexible resources, that can respond to threats in partnership with the Canadian and British soldiers.

There is another issue on the security front, which is that the strategic situation we're in will require more than the military operations. There needs to be, as I said, a post-operation presence. That is critical to ensuring that the tactical battle win doesn't end there, that the win actually is about bringing Afghans back to the village they were displaced from and bringing in their support for the country's recovery.

It is tough to do big development projects here, and I urge the countries that are working in this area to really assess what the needs of the Afghan population are on the reconstruction and development front in these areas, post-security operations.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Wajid Khan Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Should we stay there or should we withdraw? That was the question. Should we give NATO the date and the Taliban a timetable of flights that are going to take off when the troops are being withdrawn?

9:40 a.m.

Lead Project Consultant, Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington, D.C.)

Seema Patel

If anything, I think all of the NATO countries should stay committed in the short to medium term in the roles they're playing in Afghanistan. They should continue to do the security front. A withdrawal timetable, without maintaining some stability, is not helpful. It would be looked at, in my opinion, as a great strategic win for the Taliban. That being said, there's a lot we can do to improve the effectiveness of our military operations strategically, which is to continue to explain, communicate, and follow up military wins with civilian wins.