Evidence of meeting #2 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Leonard Edwards  Deputy Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (Foreign Affairs)
Bruce Hirst  Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Angela Crandall

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Bonjour, chers collègues.

We will begin today by asking the committee if we can suspend consideration of the first report of our subcommittee on agenda and procedure until after we have heard from our witnesses. Today we are considering the supplementary estimates (B) and a number of votes under Foreign Affairs and International Trade.

Appearing today we have the Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Foreign Affairs. Welcome, Mr. Minister.

He is accompanied by officials from his department: Leonard Edwards, who is the deputy minister; and Bruce Hirst, who is the assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer. Welcome, gentlemen.

On behalf of the committee, I thank the minister and his officials for appearing today on such short notice.

I'm proud to report that in the last Parliament, the 39th Parliament, a fairly short Parliament, ministers of the crown appeared before our committee a total of 17 times. Our committee is grateful for the positive responses in the past and the input we have received from the ministers, including the Minister of National Defence, the Minister of International Cooperation, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and other ministers of state responsible for various geographic regions in the world.

As the committee knows, we will allow the minister the opening statement, and then we'll proceed into the first round.

Mr. Minister, we look forward to your comments.

3:35 p.m.

Pontiac Québec

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon ConservativeMinister of Foreign Affairs

Thank you very much, chair.

Colleagues, thank you very much for having me. I hope that my appearances will be as numerous as in the previous Parliament.

In my first major foreign policy speech as foreign minister, I noted that the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade is embarking on its second century of existence at a time when the world around us is going through a period of profound and rapid change.

The global economy is still in crisis, as you know.

And the major issues facing us—peace and security, human rights, political freedom, economic development, climate change—cannot be tackled by countries on their own.

We must therefore set clear priorities. Priorities backed by focus, determination, perseverance.

The government's first concern is, naturally, to deal with the economic situation—both at home and abroad. Budget 2009 lays out a stimulus plan to get us on to the right path—creation of new jobs, restored investment and consumer confidence, targeted infrastructure projects.

The government's foreign policy is also focused on the international economic and financial problems we face as a country and as a member of the global community.

We are already deeply engaged in preparing the G8 Summit, which will be held in Huntsville, Ontario. This will be a key opportunity to exercise Canada's leadership in shaping the international response to the economic crisis.

We also will be hosting the North American Leaders' Summit in 2010.

We all know that Canada's prosperity and security are inseparable from that of the United States. I believe that the arrival of a new administration in Washington will be an opportunity to re-energize Canada's engagement and partnership with the U.S. on many issues of shared concern.

As Prime Minister Harper said, President Obama will find no better friend than Canada. Our countries have much in common and much to do together. I'll elaborate on this a bit later in my presentation.

As we look more broadly in the world, we see that violence in Afghanistan and the political and economic instability in Pakistan are undermining international efforts to restore peace and stability in that country and in the region. Iran, North Korea, and Pakistan pose serious and destabilizing threats from the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Bad governance and growing marginalization create fertile ground for instability, conflict, and terrorism.

In addition, geopolitical dynamics are changing, with increasing Russian assertiveness, and the growing demand from China, India and Brazil to be included at the tables of global power.

The global institutions created after the Second World War no longer reflect international power dynamics and we will continue to engage with our allies to re-evaluate these institutions.

Canada, as a middle power and a long-time supporter of effective multilateralism, has much at stake in a renewed global system—especially those institutions in which major threats to our security and economic interests are addressed.

Amidst the challenges, there will also be opportunities—areas where Canadian initiative, ideas, and, in particular, leadership can be addressed.

The principal goals of Canada's foreign policy are to advance and protect the security and prosperity of Canada and Canadians and to protect Canadian values. Our government is taking a more robust approach to the promotion of freedom, democracy, human rights, and rule-of-law values that Canadians hold dear.

In addition, our government is focusing Canada's foreign policy on several key priorities: the United States and the Americas; Afghanistan; emerging markets, particularly those in Asia; as well as the Arctic and the Middle East peace process.

Continued trade liberalization and increasing access to new and traditional markets will be fundamental to advancing and protecting Canada's prosperity. We are working towards a comprehensive economic partnership with the European Union. In addition, we are seeking to renew relations with India, China, Korea, and Japan to maximize economic opportunities.

As I said earlier, we will seek to renew our bilateral relationship with our most important partner, the United States. The management of our shared border is a key element of our close economic and security partnership with the United States. We are also committed to working with the Obama administration to enhance North American competitiveness as well as to open a dialogue on a North American-wide cap and trade system for greenhouse gases.

In addition, the government will seek to cooperate with the administration regarding shared peace and security concerns in Afghanistan and the Arctic, particularly competing views regarding the status of Canada's internal Arctic waterways and shared concerns over the Arctic environment.

We will also work to promote Canada as a clean energy superpower.

Canada is re-engaging in the Americas. Our strategy for the Americas is designed to promote economic prosperity, security and democratic governance through bilateral and multilateral engagement.

In addition to focusing on promoting social safety nets and a Canadian model of democracy, we are focusing on a robust trade liberalization agenda to ensure Canadian access to growing markets.

In Haiti, Canada will maintain its engagement and focus on high level political engagement, as well as stabilization, reconstruction and long-term development. Canada is Haiti's second largest bilateral donor.

The fifth Summit of the Americas in Trinidad and Tobago in April of this year will provide the opportunity for Canada to reinforce our security and economic interests in the region.

Also this year, Canada hosts the Caribbean Development Bank's Board of Governors meeting in Halifax.

Let me turn now to Afghanistan.

In Afghanistan we will continue to support security, stability, and democratic governance so that the country no longer poses a threat to regional and global security. Canada's engagement is also focusing on reconstruction and development, as well as preparation for the end of our military mission there in 2011.

In this latter context we have set six clear objectives to guide our engagement for the next three years. Canada will help the Afghan government to train the Afghan National Army and police in Kandahar province. We will work to strengthen Afghan governance institutions and local democratic structure in order to deliver core services and promote economic growth. Canada will provide humanitarian assistance for vulnerable populations. We will work to enhance the Pakistan-Afghanistan bilateral dialogue and cross-border security. We will contribute to building the capacity of national democratic institutions and will support political reconciliation.

A word now about the Arctic.

The Arctic is not only an integral part of Canada as a territorial fact, but it is also central to our identity as a northern country. Canada is an Arctic power. We will continue to affirm Canadian sovereignty over our Arctic territory.

We will advance environmental stewardship with our Arctic neighbours who have a shared interest in the health of this precious region.

We will also participate actively in the Arctic Council, a multilateral forum that brings all of the relevant Arctic players together, including territorial governments and aboriginal communities.

In fact, I will be visiting the Arctic Council countries over the coming months to advance our Arctic agenda.

In addition to these priorities, Canada will do its share in responding to key global challenges. Now let me give you a few examples, colleagues.

In response to the global economic crisis, the government is working with the G20 for the reform of the global financial architecture. In response to the diminished effectiveness of global institutions, we are consulting broadly with the international community on the reform of the global governance architecture.

Consistent with Canada's affirmation of Israel's right to exist and to defend itself, and our support for a two-state solution, Canada is contributing $300 million over five years to support Palestinian institutional reform and the peace process.

In Africa, Canada is meeting its commitments. We are doubling our annual aid to Africa to $2.1 billion in this fiscal year from the 2003-04 levels. We are working with African and other countries to address key regional security and governance crises, for example, in the Congo and Zimbabwe. In Sudan, Canada is contributing $191 million in funds this year for security, diplomacy and aid.

Canada continues to maintain the strongest sanctions in the world against the Burmese regime.

Canada continues to be engaged in addressing ongoing security threats from terrorism, international crime, nuclear proliferation and fragile states.

And finally, we are mounting a vigorous effort to gain international support for Canada's bid for a seat on the UN National Security Council for 2011 and 2012.

With that, Chairman, I will be happy to respond to any questions the committee members have. Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Minister.

We'll proceed into the first round, a 10-minute round.

Mr. Rae.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Minister, and to many of your colleagues, let me just say a personal word of welcome. It's a great pleasure to see so many distinguished public servants here listening to what we have to say. I appreciate your statement, Minister.

I'm wondering if I could ask you about page 5 of your remarks. I'll just talk about Afghanistan for a minute. You'll appreciate that in 10 minutes it's pretty hard to have a consistent line of questioning, but I'm going to do my best. I'm going to start with Afghanistan. I'm then going to ask you some questions about your statements about focus and priorities, and then I want to turn to Sri Lanka, if I may, at the end.

Minister, with respect to the statement, “We will help to enhance the Pakistan-Afghanistan bilateral dialogue”, what form is that taking? Can you give us some greater detail on what that actually means?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

Fundamentally, Mr. Rae, what we are trying to do is to bring together both parties to discuss their common objectives in protecting the border. There were some efforts undertaken a couple of months ago. I must admit that the relations are a little difficult in that regard; it is a challenge, but we have been making progress. We are looking at ways to find the correct forum, the correct venue, to be able to foster this discussion.

Quite candidly, and very openly, colleagues, this is a challenge, and we all appreciate that, but we do have good people on the ground who are working to be able to bring them together to set up that dialogue. That is basically what we want to be able to do.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Minister, I don't mean to detract at all from the very great professionals who are on the ground—and I've had the opportunity to visit them, both in Kabul and Islamabad—but the President of the United States has appointed Mr. Holbrooke as a senior envoy to look at Pakistan-Afghanistan. I have long had the feeling that our military effort in Afghanistan has not been matched by our diplomatic and political efforts to find a long-term solution.

I wonder if the government would consider appointing somebody who would be able to match the efforts of Mr. Holbrooke—I'm not suggesting that they match the rhetoric of Mr. Holbrooke—so that we can be seen to be working very closely with the administration in an area that, I think, is going to require much greater coordination as we go forward.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

I'd respond, Mr. Rae, by saying that I--

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

I'm not applying for the job. I want to make that quite clear.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

You've taken away my punchline.

On a more serious front, you know that our Afghanistan policy is driven on the one hand from the Manley report, which set out the general principles and guidelines for our engagement there. We then went to Parliament, as you know. You, as the foreign affairs critic, as well as my predecessor in this position, were directly involved. I think everybody worked hard to scope out the responsibility and role that Canada must play in that area.

You point out with beaucoup de justesse, I think, le fait que Monsieur Holbrook est maintenant là. I'm looking forward to being able to meet with him as well as Mrs. Clinton to continue the dialogue.

For the time being, we have our six priorities. That is where we're going.

If I understand you correctly, you're inviting us to be more open to a frank and honest discussion. I have no problem looking at that, but once again reminding you that the government's policy is determined essentially by a vote that the House of Commons has taken. Any change in our fundamental policy would require that this be looked at again.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

I'm interested in the question of coordination.

On page 3, your paragraph where you discuss your focuses, I'm concerned that you didn't refer to Africa. Minister, I'll tell you why I'm concerned. If you look at CIDA's budget, a vast percentage of its budget is dedicated to African aid. There are significant governance issues in Africa, which we're spending a lot of money on. We're spending money in Sudan and the Congo. We're spending a great deal of money in a number of countries that have extensive governance issues. I'm one of those who think that the work of the foreign affairs department and CIDA is inseparable and that we've been living in separate silos for too long.

We have to find better ways to coordinate the work of CIDA and that of the Department of Foreign Affairs.

You said that you would be focusing on certain priority areas: Afghanistan, the markets, the United States, the Americas, the Arctic, the Middle East, but you did not make any mention of Africa from the political viewpoint, from your department's viewpoint, despite the fact that nearly all of CIDA's international funding is spent there. In my opinion, when political direction does not follow the money, there is a problem.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

As we say, is it the dog wagging the tail or is it the tail wagging the dog?

Colleague, Canada is meeting its commitments in Africa. Once again, we doubled our annual aid to Africa to $2.1 billion. We are working in partnership with reform-minded African governments. We're seeking results in terms of poverty reduction, improved education and health, and of course more democracy. We're also working with Africa and others to address key regional security and governance crises. I point out what we're doing in Sudan, the Congo, as well as Zimbabwe.

You're probably referring to your colleague's article this morning--and I see a smile on your face--who indicated that not only did this government but the previous government.... I can say, though, that this government has doubled its aid to Africa.

I had the opportunity of meeting two weeks ago with the ambassadors from Africa to Canada. We had a very, very good exchange

I would even say that our relationship could be described as being fruitful.

In the coming years, I foresee us continuing these efforts, particularly with respect to aid. You talked about coordination. I can assure and re-assure you by saying that we have exceptional coordination, exemplary coordination even, between my department and that of my colleague, Ms. Oda.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Minister, with respect to Sri Lanka, since last week's press release and House debate, have you had an opportunity to speak to the foreign minister about Canada's call for a ceasefire?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

I haven't spoken to the foreign minister of Sri Lanka, but this morning I had a long and extensive discussion with the foreign minister of India. We touched on several issues, particularly the relationship between India and Sri Lanka. We also discussed Sri Lanka's ongoing conflict, the humanitarian crisis, and some of the issues that were debated last week.

My colleague called for the lull in the conflict. There was a pause that allowed some humanitarian aid to get in. It enabled people caught in the conflict to exit the area of strife. He also said that he was supportive of Canada's position in respect of finding a long-term political solution. He referred to the 1987 agreement between the parties. Under article 13, if I'm not mistaken, they are looking to devolve more power into the region.

Canada and Commonwealth countries are bringing pressure to end the conflict, as are other like-minded countries. We want to make sure there is a stable government so that everybody can be happy and prosperous and have the quality of life that we all wish for them.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you.

Mr. Crête, you have 10 minutes.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Minister, in your presentation you concluded by saying that Canada would be intensifying its efforts in order to garner international support to obtain a seat on the United Nations Security Council.

Would you agree with me in saying that, in order to win this seat, it would be important to have a spotless human rights record? Accordingly, it would be wise for Canada to review its position on Omar Khadr.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

If I may, I would first of all like to answer your question regarding the role played by Canada, in the past and at present, in many countries.

Your colleague spoke about the role Canada is playing in Africa. Our country is held in high regard there because it does not have the reputation of being a colonizer like certain other countries. That helps a great deal. Our diplomatic services are working very hard to ensure that we are able to win a seat at the United Nations Security Council. We are competing with Portugal and Germany. We believe that one of these two countries should represent the European Union as a non-permanent member, and that the other seat should be given to Canada. We are therefore making every effort to do this.

Canada's reputation is exemplary. You would like me to talk about the case of Mr. Khadr, who is attracting a great deal of media attention. Over the past few weeks or months, we have made our position on this matter known. I will repeat it: this is an individual who's been accused of committing serious crimes. Significant charges have been laid against this individual. We know that the U.S. President has issued two directives. First of all, the Guantanamo base is to be shut down within a year. Secondly, the process is to be turned over to a panel of experts composed of representatives from various U.S. departments. The position of Canada is to wait until the process has been completed and conclusions drawn. We will then act accordingly.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Don't you think that M. Khadr is a child soldier, and that under the international convention that governs such issues, we should have considered him as such, something that would have made it possible for him to be repatriated to Canada? I do not understand why the government did not take this approach, which is far more in line with Canada's customary approach to foreign affairs issues.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

In my humble opinion, Mr. Crête, that is not where the debate lies. Once again, I would repeat that Mr. Khadr has been charged with murder, aiding and abetting, and terrorism. You will agree those are very serious charges. There are not that many individuals charged with such offences, and such a number of offences.

Thus, I believe we need to leave it up to President Obama to take action on this matter. President Obama has indicated to his administration, and to those in charge of reviewing the case, that he plans to shut down the facilities. The other day, I heard comments on the issue. Your colleague, the member for Toronto-Centre, suggested a meeting here to review the issue. The leader of the Official Opposition, Mr. Ignatieff, said that Omar Khadr would have to be brought back here to be put on trial. Basically, our position is clear.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Minister, the fundamental question is this: do you acknowledge that Omar Khadr is a child soldier?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

The question is not whether I acknowledge that or not, Mr. Crête. Omar Khadr has been detained in the United States. The President of the United States has indicated the process that is to be applied. As Minister of Foreign Affairs, I have told the President that Canada would respect this decision, and would abide by the process that has been set in motion.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Canada could have shown the same kind of openness as Mr. Obama. Given that Mr. Obama has decided to shut down Guantanamo Bay and suspend military commissions, would it not have been appropriate for Canada to make an effort and agree to set out a plan to bring Mr. Khadr back to Canada? From a human rights standpoint, that would be a more in line with Canada's usual approach, far more than the somewhat vengeful approach Canada is taking now.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

I do not think that we can really talk about a spirit of vengefulness. Even before President Obama designated an approach, he determined that there were proceedings underway. Mr. Khadr had been charged with very serious offences. Now, his trial has been suspended on President Obama's orders. As I have already said, we will wait until the proceedings are complete.

4 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Don't you feel that Canadians—and there is a very broad consensus now—feel that Mr. Obama's position should be followed up on by the Canadian government, and that the Canadian government should show some openness about rehabilitating Mr. Khadr, who is young. That would be more in the spirit of the young offenders' legislation that applies in Canada.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

Mr. Crête, we are, following the path laid out by the U.S. government. The administration has issued three orders, which we are following with a great deal of interest, as I said. We will let the U.S. administration do what it has to do, and then respond at the appropriate time.

4 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

In a way, you have thus decided that Mr. Obama would be setting Canada's foreign affairs policy.