Evidence of meeting #21 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was list.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Excellency Bawoumondom Amelete  Ambassador of the Togolese Republic to Canada, Embassy of the Togolese Republic
Excellency Juliette Bonkoungou Yameogo  Ambassador of Burkina Faso to Canada, Embassy of Burkina Faso
Excellency Nana Aicha Mouctari Foumakoye  Ambassador of the Republic of Niger to Canada, Embassy of the Republic of Niger
Louise Ramazani  Minister-Counsellor & Chargé d'Affaires, a.i. of the Republic of the Congo to Canada, Embassy of the Democratic Republic of the Congo
Excellency Mouldi Sakri  Ambassador of the Republic of Tunisia to Canada, Embassy of the Republic of Tunisia
Excellency Honoré Théodore Ahimakin  Ambassador of the Republic of Benin to Canada, Embassy of the Republic of Benin

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Oda Conservative Durham, ON

I'm going to be continuing it. Certainly Canada has been out in the forefront on the gender issues. One thing that was recognized internationally is the way Canada integrates or mainstreams gender considerations in all of its programs. In fact, we're one of the few countries where when you come forward with a proposal, you have to respond to how gender considerations have been taken.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

But why isn't it one of your priorities?

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Oda Conservative Durham, ON

Again, we want to make sure that it's integrated and that it's not in a silo unto itself. There are certain countries, like Afghanistan...and in fact, in Afghanistan we're doing a lot for women particularly. I wanted to be able to report to you that we are monitoring very stringently the rights of women, the laws, the legislation being undertaken there. But I want to make sure that it doesn't get isolated.

In fact, back in the early 1990s I was on the gender issues advisory board to the Treasury Board of the Canadian government to try to ensure that even within our own public service or in our crown corporations, consideration of gender and gender issues was not sidelined and put into a silo. So I'm very conscious of that.

There are activities to support women's human rights, etc., and a lot of the agriculture, as you know, is undertaken by women, the small farm holders, and so is the micro-financing.

I will say this. I think the women are maybe sometimes just as, if not more, entrepreneurial than the males. Our women's literacy programs are critical for us. When you support women, women will take care of their families. Their children will be better educated, better nourished, and they will receive better health care. It's the women who ensure that they have the food they need, the housing, the shelter, etc.

So I'm a big supporter--

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

So it could be our number 4--

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bev Oda Conservative Durham, ON

I want to make sure that it's not isolated and that it's built in into every one of our themes.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much, Madam Minister.

We allowed Mr. Dewar to go 17 seconds over time. Let me just say that the Liberals had lots of time on this one.

Anyway, Madam Minister, we thank you very much for coming today. We're going to suspend, and then we're going to welcome the delegation from the African countries here.

Madam Minister, just before we do, I also did want to put on the record that I know you were in Sri Lanka and that you did make a pledge there. This committee has just completed a report on Sri Lanka, with some recommendations that we certainly recommend for your reading. We thank you for the work you did there on behalf of our country.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Colleagues, welcome back.

In our second hour we are going to continue our review of key elements of Canadian foreign policy. We are conducting hearings on the Great Lakes region of Africa. And we have a special delegation of ambassadors, high commissioners, ministers, and councillors to Canada from a number of African nations.

Our committee, really, is overwhelmed by the interest that you demonstrate in our work by attending our meeting today. We thank you all very much for taking the time and making the effort to assist us in our studies in this committee.

It's my understanding that the Ambassador of Burkina Faso to Canada, Juliette Bonkoungou Yameogo, will deliver an opening statement for our committee. Madam Ambassador, on behalf of our committee, welcome, and we look forward to your comments.

Oh, they changed. Okay.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

4:45 p.m.

His Excellency Bawoumondom Amelete Ambassador of the Togolese Republic to Canada, Embassy of the Togolese Republic

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

With your permission, in my capacity as Dean of the African Diplomatic Corps here in Canada, I will be speaking before my colleague from Burkina Faso.

Mr. Chairman of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, honourable members of Parliament, ladies and gentlemen, it is a tremendous pleasure for myself and all my colleagues to be with you this afternoon in the prestigious edifice which is the Parliament of Canada.

In my capacity as Dean of the African Diplomatic Corps here in Canada, I would like to begin by taking this opportunity to express my very sincere thanks to the Chairman and all the members of this Committee for agreeing to meet with us this afternoon before this august assembly. Meetings such as the one this afternoon give us a chance to get to know and understand each other better, in order to foster the development of a more harmonious and advantageous relationship between Canada and Africa.

A foreign head of state made the following comment on February 28, 2008 in South Africa: “Transparency is the best guarantee of solid and lasting relations, and the best antidote to fantasy and incomprehension.”

It is with that desire for dialogue that we come before you this afternoon, as friends of Canada, to exchange views. My colleague from Burkina Faso, to whom I will cede the floor in a moment, is our spokesperson. You have critics here in Parliament, but we have our own spokesperson, who will be delivering our message. With your permission, I would like to very quickly introduce the colleagues mandated by the African group to meet with you this afternoon.

I will name the countries and ask my colleagues to please rise when they hear the name of their country: South Africa, Benin, Burundi, Algeria, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Gabon, Ghana—the representative of that country is apparently not here—Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Rwanda, Tanzania, Togo—which I am representing—Tunisia, Zambia, Zimbabwe and Libya which, as you may recall, is now chairing the African Union.

I would like to turn it over now to my colleague from Burkina Faso.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much.

Madame, the remarks you have here are a little long. But I want to commend to our committee's attention that the presentation is in the booklet and that you're recommended to take it and read it. They have recommendations at the end.

Thank you, Madame, and go ahead.

4:50 p.m.

Her Excellency Juliette Bonkoungou Yameogo Ambassador of Burkina Faso to Canada, Embassy of Burkina Faso

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and distinguished members of Parliament.

Following the opening remarks of our dean, His Excellency, Mr. Bawoumondom Amelete, Ambassador of the Republic of Togo, please allow me, in my capacity as spokesperson, to thank each and every one of you for your availability and your warm welcome, and to express our great pleasure at being here this afternoon to share with you our vision of the Canada-Africa Partnership.

Before that, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to state firmly that we come before you today as friends of Canada, mindful of the role your country plays as a G-8 member in Africa.

Let it be clear that we are not here this afternoon with a cup in hand, but rather, we come to share our convictions and our concerns with you in the hope of creating a renewed partnership with your country.

It is not about blaming someone for our under-development. We are responsible for errors committed in the strategic choices we made in development programs, for entertaining non-democratic systems of governance and for our weaknesses in terms of accountability, transparency and corruption. However, we wish to energetically assert that, despite these images of an Africa that has turned its back on peace and progress, there is another Africa, which is young, dynamic, industrious and innovative, and which is struggling to achieve positive results.

My colleagues and I are firmly convinced that, in the history of a friendship such as ours, there are moments when it becomes necessary and important to find time to sit down and communicate with each other, to create a new dialogue in order to strengthen and reinvigorate that friendship. That is why we are here this afternoon.

Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished members of Parliament, Africa's diplomatic relations with Canada are not new; for most of our countries, they date as far back as the early days of independence in the 1960s. Today, all of our countries enjoy diplomatic and/or trade relations with Canada. But, what is Canada to Africa?

Seen from Africa, Canada is a country of friendship, a friendly, developed country, multilingual, bilingual and without a colonial past; a country concerned about world peace and security, a loyal friend that stands up for its convictions, even if that means disagreeing with its best allies on matters that touch on its core values. Canada is a friend that understands the challenges of Africa because it experiences challenges of a similar nature at home, even if those challenges are not of the same magnitude.

Like many countries, Canada's economy is driven by raw materials. Certain regions of Canada have only one type of production and are keenly aware of how precarious such dependency can be. However, despite this fragility, Canada has been able to build a strong economy based on knowledge and technical know-how, and now stands tall among the eight greatest nations of this world. We, Africans, would like to emulate your shining example.

For us, Canada is a country whose people stand shoulder to shoulder with vulnerable people, both at home and elsewhere in the world, a country which uses public resources wisely, carefully, effectively and with skill, to support effective markets in the public interest.

For we, Africans, Canada, one of the greatest countries in the world, is a reliable partner we can count on. Canada's corporations and institutions are not as huge and anonymous as those of other world economic power houses. It is interesting to recall that, on many occasions, at international gatherings, Canada has stood shoulder to shoulder with Africa in defence of our continent's interests. This has been the case for agricultural subsidies, and especially as regards cotton.

That is the Canada that Africa knows, frequents and with whom it is anxious to move forward.

It is for all of these reasons that, without questioning Canada's right as a sovereign nation to set its own priorities, and the policies that go along with them, we were very disturbed by the government's recent decisions regarding our continent, decisions which seem to sound the death-knell for the bright days of our privileged relationship with Canada.

In that connection, we have in mind the closure of embassies in certain African countries; the establishment of a priority list of countries to receive Canadian aid; a reduction in the number of countries on that list; figures showing a downward trend in Canadian aid to Africa in favour of other regions of the world. Indeed, according to some sources, such as the Canadian Council for International Cooperation, with the list of 25 core countries, 70% of Canadian bilateral aid was going to Africa. With just 20 countries now, the proportion will drop to 35% after 2010.

These observations are even more baffling to us as they come at a time when new economic powers such as Brazil, China and India are rushing to secure a place on our continent and investing significant amounts of money in order to do so.

Are we to believe that our longtime friend has decided to let others pick up where it has left off, and to ignore the many studies, both from international financial institutions and private organizations, which all conclude that Africa will play a critical geostrategic role in the next decade with its population of 1.5 billion by 2020, 60% of which will be under the age of 25? Did the Honourable Peter MacKay, member of Parliament and former Minister of Foreign Affairs, not say, and I quote: “As to the question of knowing if Africa is a long-term challenge, I would say that even if currently, it is terrorism that is grabbing the headlines, Africa will be the most important challenge of my generation and the next”.

For we, Africans, tomorrow's challenge is already today's challenge. In terms of private investments, many Canadian firms are already investing in many different sectors in Africa, primarily mining, and are in an excellent competitive position. Furthermore, despite a few areas of concern, good governance is taking root in most of our countries, along with greater democratization and the organization of regular and pluralist elections which sometimes result in changes of government.

More independent and better equipped judicial systems are also being set up. An active civil society is emerging with more and more civil liberties and a free press. New institutions and programs, such as the Africa Peer Review; the Council for Peace and Security of the African Union, which is tackling conflict prevention and resolution; the Organization for the Harmonization in Africa of Business Law, which is improving the business environment and providing for better legal protection of investments; and the New Partnership for the Development of Africa, which is giving Africa a coherent program of development, all contribute to strengthening economic and political governance, thereby giving Africa hope, peace and development.

For a continent that has gone through the trials and tribulations of the Cold War and the consequences of the East-West confrontation on its soil to be able to take these important steps in just a few years is quite an achievement. Added to these positive steps with respect to good governance and democracy, are Africa's huge mineral deposits, that have prompted some to say that our continent is a geological scandal. Indeed, Africa has enormous natural resources, huge amounts of solar energy, 30% to 40% of global hydro-electric potential, considerable oil and gas reserves, 97% of the world's chrome, 85% of its platinum, 60% to 80% of the world's gold and diamond deposits, 64% of its manganese, as well as 9 billion tons of high-concentration bauxite, significant reserves of phosphate, abundant natural and wildlife, and so on.

Unfortunately, the tsunami brought on by the current global financial crisis is likely to wipe away all these efforts and mortgage the opportunities that these resources represent for our countries.

In fact, from 2004 to 2008, general economic reform programs in Africa resulted in an average rate of growth of 6% annually. Now, however, the current crisis will break that momentum and force the growth rate down to 2.8% in 2009. The reduction by half of that growth rate erases all hope of increasing per capita income on the continent, because of equivalent population growth over the same period.

According to World Bank estimates, the number of poor—in other words, people living with the equivalent of $1.25 US or less—will increase by 2% to 500 million, 50 million of whom are in Africa, with all the ensuing negative consequences for the people of Africa. Fewer resources mean fewer meals, fewer children in school, and less health care. This crisis may well carry with it businesses, mines, jobs and people's economic livelihood.

In Africa, no less than anywhere else, time is of the essence and decisive action is needed right now. In record time, rich countries were able to put up hundreds of billions of dollars to come to the rescue of their own businesses and citizens. As a victim of collateral damage, Africa is asking that a very small part of those resources—7% of global GDP—be allocated to it in order to meet these challenges.

According to a recent study by the African Development Bank, the continent needs about $106 billion US over a two-year period—from 2009 to 2010—just to maintain the previous growth rate. However, in order to get the wheels of the economy really turning again and reach the 7% growth rate needed to provide basic infrastructure and reduce poverty by half between now and 2015, it will take $247 billion US over the same period to reach that objective. That is the amount announced by Barack Obama for the stimulus package in the United States alone. It is the equivalent of 10% of China's foreign exchange reserves. In this context, it is clear that this is within the realm of the possible if the entire international community is involved in assisting the billions of people in need.

That is why we are asking our longtime friend, Canada, to again take its place as the world's social conscience, which has done so much for its reputation and credibility.

We therefore have included recommendations on page 9 which we see as an attractive set of concrete proposals. We are asking that members of Parliament support these proposals, examine them carefully and gain a clear understanding of the authorities and the populations involved, so that vigourous and urgent action may be taken to assist Africa. These recommendations relate to political issues around democracy, good governance, peace and security, infrastructure, energy, agriculture, human development, occupational training, and so on.

Of course, as we mentioned earlier, we understand that every country sets its own policies according to its means, its constraints and its priorities. However, it is worth noting that Canada, like other developed countries, undertook at the Copenhagen Summit—a commitment which was later confirmed by the United Nations General Assembly when the Millennium Goals were adopted—to dedicate 0.7% of its GDP to official development assistance and to work towards reducing poverty by half by 2015.

Unfortunately, the poor are in Africa. Today, at 0.32% and ranked 16th on the list of 22 developed countries—according to the OECD—we are a long way from achieving that goal.

According to the United Nations, the Millennium Goals aimed at reducing poverty by 50% by 2015 will not be met as long as the various bilateral lenders, including Canada, do not meet by their commitment to dedicate 0.7% of their GDP to official development assistance. The same experts believe that, if the current rate is maintained, Africa cannot expect to reduce poverty by half before 2150—in other words, 130 years from now.

Certainly, we are very appreciative of the significant efforts made by Canada with respect to basic education, the fight against HIV/AIDS, malaria and other pandemics in Africa, as well as its contribution to peace and security in the world.

Today, more than yesterday, however, we have to face the facts: prosperity, peace and security go hand in hand. They nurture one another and grow together. Also, it is very important that we work together, starting now, with our long-time friend to put a stop to violence and terrorism which are making an appearance here and there on the continent, particularly cases of abduction, piracy, and so on.

It is an illusion to believe, as some do, that one can separate business from development and security. One cannot flourish without the other.

We believe that Canada's decision to seek other partners should not be to Africa's detriment. In spite of that, and given expressions of friendship and solidarity from the people of Canada, high-ranking politicians, the press and the civil society, including the strong voice of a former Prime Minister, the Right Honourable Joe Clark, who called for continued preferential solidarity with Africa in the Globe and Mail, we remain optimistic, and are confident that Canada-Africa relations can continue to improve and develop in a mutually beneficial manner, in order to meet the challenges of development, the fight against poverty and the promotion of peace and security in the world.

Ladies and gentlemen, Canada's commitment to Africa, which remains just as critical, valuable and well-defined, must continue to be unshakable and conform to its values which, more often than not, are the same as those of Africa. That is why, while noting the new measures and the somewhat ambiguous message being sent to Africa, we remain confident and are mindful of the assurances given us by our partners at the Department of Foreign Affairs and CIDA.

While not denying the importance of multilateral contributions, we believe that Canada's deep felt values and the potential for development of the African continent militate in favour of a specific, comprehensive and renewed African political strategy.

Finally, ladies and gentlemen, in one word or in a thousand, we wish to see Canada take its place again and demonstrate its leadership in Africa, as part of a comprehensive win-win partnership, because we believe that the country of Pearson, Trudeau, Joe Clark, Kim Campbell, Jean Chrétien, Paul Martin, Brian Mulroney and many other great sons and daughters of Canada has always responded positively, every time there was a need to work together towards a better world, a more cohesive, fairer and richer world for all.

Thank you very much. I want to apologize for going over my time, but I believe the importance of what I had to say compelled me to do so.

Thank you for your kind attention.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much, Madam Bonkoungou Yameogo.

We'll go now to Madame Folco—welcome to our committee—and Mr. Bélanger. I'm going to ask you to formulate your questions very quickly, both of you together.

Mr. Obhrai, did you have a point?

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB

I think in the election of 2008 the Liberals lost their way. There are too many Liberals out there. Who is representing whom? We don't know.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

They have Madame Folco, Monsieur Bélanger, and Mr. Pearson.

Madame Folco.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

We're going to have five-minute rounds, so, if you would, give your question, and Mr. Bélanger can give his question.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC

And then the answers will come at the end?

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Yes.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC

Good. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to wish a warm welcome to all the ambassadors who are here today representing the different African countries.

Thank you, Ambassador Amelete and, particularly, the Ambassador from Burkina Faso.

My question will primarily be addressed to the ambassadors representing countries who are members of the Francophonie, as I am the Liberal critic for International Francophonie. I will go right to them.

The Government of Canada has made a number of cuts. In 2007, the Leadership for the Environment and Development for Francophone Africa program was cut. Then, in 2008, the Canadian Fund for Africa had its funding significantly reduced. The latest cuts made by CIDA to its programs in Africa, and which the Government of Canada recently announced, affect bilateral aid in particular.

My questions, which are addressed in particular to the ambassadors from Niger, Burkina Faso, Rwanda and Benin, are as follows: what has been the impact of these three major cuts which I just mentioned to multilateral and institutional aid in your respective countries? Second, which sectors are most affected by these cuts? Third, how do you expect to be able to carry on the programs that are already underway, in light of the timelines you have signed on to with the Government of Canada? What areas are particularly affected by the cuts that have been announced since 1999 by the Government of Canada?

Thank you.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bélanger.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to thank all my colleagues for their indulgence. Rather than asking a question, I would like to make a comment.

I am here today as a member of the Official Opposition, but also as Joint Chair of the Canada-Africa Parliamentary Association. We met with some of Your Excellencies a while ago. I can confirm two things: first, our continuing interest in Africa and our commitment to continue to try and convince any Canadian government, whatever it may be, to maintain a major presence in Africa and major cooperation with Africa.

Also, Excellencies, I would like to thank you for the series of recommendations you have provided today. I have noted them all, and find them very comprehensive. They will certainly be a good basis for our work in the association. Thank you very much.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.

Ambassadors, Madame Folco had some questions. I think she directed them to a number of ambassadors.

Would you like to respond?

May 27th, 2009 / 5:15 p.m.

H.E. Juliette Bonkoungou Yameogo

Madam, thank you for your question. We, Africans, do not necessarily speak in terms of Francophones and Anglophones because, for us, Africa is a whole. However, it is important to say that we believe Canada to be a bilingual country and that we think a continued linguistic balance between Anglophone and Francophone areas can only continue to enrich us as a continent. In that sense, we have indeed recommended in our written brief that a slight adjustment may be in order, but our real desire tonight is to see a more comprehensive vision of aid to Africa.

Thank you.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Merci. Was there another response?

Yes, Madame.

5:15 p.m.

Her Excellency Nana Aicha Mouctari Foumakoye Ambassador of the Republic of Niger to Canada, Embassy of the Republic of Niger

Thank you for your questions. I want to express my support for the comments made by the Ambassador of Burkina Faso and refer to the specific situation that prevails in our countries. As you know, Canada is supporting efforts in our countries to meet the challenges they are currently facing, particularly in such critical social areas as education, health and humanitarian assistance. Now, however, those areas are bound to suffer. It is the same for the efforts of NGOs that are active in our countries and benefit from Canada's support. As a result of these cuts, support for NGOs will also be affected, as will all of our efforts and those of our nationals living in those countries. It is all of that. As you can see, the shortfall in funding is enormous.

Thank you.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much. We'll move to other questions.

Ms. Deschamps and Ms. Lalonde, you have five minutes.