Foreign Affairs Committee on April 29th, 2010

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

Thank you very much, Ms. Mathyssen.

Obviously, I cannot… It goes without saying that our vote is not for sale. However, we do have friendly relations, strong relations that go back to the days following our independence. We wrote to the Canadian government to say—and I believe I can make this comment here without it being public—that we would support Canada's candidacy for a seat on the Security Council, as a non-permanent member.

Having said that, I did not come here today to sell that information; I came to explain to the Canadian government that our longstanding relations, which are productive and have been reinforced in recent years by a strong private sector presence in our country, should be strengthened further, to our mutual advantage. That would mean that Burkina Faso would have a greater opportunity to achieve its millennium development goals, and would be better equipped to fight poverty and continue to make progress in such areas as governance and gender equality. It would also be an opportunity to state to Canada that it is very much in its interests to see that happen, since it would expand business opportunities. It would also allow us to maintain our efforts in the sub-region towards peace and stability, efforts which are useful for general economic development and trade, in particular.

We were very well received, as I said. I had the opportunity to meet with the Canada-Africa Friendship, Cooperation and Solidarity Association, where we had very interesting discussions. I also met with the Honourable Bob Rae; again, they were very interesting discussions. I met with the two whips; that was very interesting. And I see that, here as well, the questions are specific and interesting.

I think that is what it is all about—candid and friendly relations between our two countries. These are two countries engaged in dialogue are not just two governments; they are two countries talking to one another—in other words, over and above the governments per se, these are two countries whose interests must be preserved and must foster stronger bonds of friendship.

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Just one second. If I could just mention to the minister, we are in public, so there are media present. I just remind you this is a public meeting.

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

Ah!… You should have told me that.

[A voice]

A minor diplomatic incident.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I just wanted to reiterate that.

[Her Excellency Juliette Bonkoungou]

With the Minister's permission, I would just like to add that our President intervened to ensure that the Canadian hostages would be freed. That occurred after we had been removed from the list. That is just to illustrate that our friendship with Canada goes beyond issues such as quotas, which we do hope are not permanent.

Thank you.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

I'm very interested in what you said about peace, stability, and moving toward gender equality, particularly gender equality. What steps are you taking to make sure that there is that equality so that women can play a role in community and in the economy, and strengthen the economy by virtue of that contribution?

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

First of all, at the political level, the government introduced legislation which was passed by the National Assembly and which requires that a minimum number of seats be reserved for women in each political party.

Secondly, the government has established various funding structures—they are seven in all—which enable women to be engaged in remunerative activities.

Thirdly, we have begun large scale literacy training. As you know, if you are 30 years of age and never attended school, if you have an opportunity to improve your literacy in your native language and learn how to read, it will allow you to be a lot more productive.

We are also trying, insofar as possible, to ensure that both women and men—although we have not yet achieve parity—move up the ladder to positions of responsibility. Having said that, I should also mention that we want to take this much further, although that will obviously take time because, even in countries with advanced economies, it was not so very long ago that women secured the right to vote in certain countries. For a long time now—since we gained our independence—women have had the right to vote; that is working very well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Ms. Mathyssen.

We're now going to our second round. It looks as though we have time for two more interventions, so I'm going to start with Mr. Goldring and finish with Mr. Rae.

Mr. Goldring for five minutes, please.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Madam Ambassador and Minister Yoda, ladies and gentlemen, welcome. Certainly we've enjoyed very warm relationships for 30 or 40 years now.

The subject I would like to talk about first is the optimism in terms of the mining exploration that is happening, and it involves considerable effort by Canadian mining companies. I'm sure you're aware of a bill that is before the House of Commons now, Bill C-300. There seems to be quite a bit of controversy, certainly from the mining industry itself. We've all had many, many letters from the various mining companies that basically say the bill will disadvantage the international competitiveness of Canadian mining companies, which may very well impede them in being able to proceed with these developments; or the bill will create a strong incentive for multinational mining companies to relocate outside of Canada, so it may not be a continuation of mining concerns with Canadian companies.

This is very, very concerning to many here in Canada, because the mining industry in this country is probably one of the most substantial worldwide.

The question earlier by one of the members was on China's activities. If the resources are there, and certainly they have been found and certainly they will be developed, can you envision that if the Canadian mining sector did have to pull back from it for a variety of very, very restricted reasons, from our own in-Canada bill, that shortfall could be picked up by the Chinese mining sector? Or who next in line would be very substantial in the area?

I might add, it's not a government bill; it has been put forward as a private member's bill. We are a minority government here, and quite regularly some of these initiatives do come forward by weight of the opposition parties here having greater numbers than we do.

I guess the lead question to that also would be the aid that Canada is contributing to the country. We do have a combination of economic considerations and limitations. Would that be a concern, if the Canadian mining sector had to bow out?

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

Mr. Goldring, I am a little uncomfortable answering that question. First of all, I would not like to see the Canadian private sector dismiss the Burkinan mining industry. On the contrary, I would like to see a stronger Canadian presence there because, as I said at the outset, we have excellent relations with your private companies, which abide by Burkina Faso's laws and regulations. However, I have no particular power over Canadian legislation, whatever direction it proposes to take. I only hope that the current situation, which is a positive one, will prevail.

Who would replace Canadian private firms if they were to bow out? Apart from the fact that I hope they will not, many countries do business in Burkina Faso—Australia, South Africa, India, and China—even though we do not have diplomatic relations with it—as well as Brazil and many other countries. The business is there, naturally, but doing business with friends is always better.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Goldring.

We'll finish with Mr. Rae.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Welcome, Minister. I am pleased to see you again. The Ambassador is well known to us.

Minister, I would invite you to comment on two things. First of all, what, in your view, is causing the never-ending instability of the region Her Excellency referred to? Second, what is your view of political developments in the region, and even in Africa? I believe it is important that we hear your ideas on how we can really secure the necessary stability, prosperity, social justice and sustainability in Africa, which remains a priority for our government and, naturally, for your own as well.

[His Excellency Alain Bédouma Yoda]

This is a question from someone with extensive experience both in Africa and on the political scene.

In terms of what is causing instability in the sub-region, the factors in play vary from one country to the other. Togo, for example, was led by a single party for 30 or more years. That left the impression that power sharing was inadequate. I must say as well, because this is what I truly believe, that colonialization also bears part of the responsibility. Indeed, a country is considered somewhat differently depending on whether it is in the south or the north. The south, which has a much larger population, felt that the time had come for it, too, to exercise authority, authority that had very often been exercised by the north. I believe that it all began there.

Of course, the elections compounded the problem, and when President Eyadéma died, you know who his successor was. It was very difficult. That was when President Compaoré was asked to act as mediator. That is what made it possible to hold elections in 2005, which occurred in very difficult circumstances. Many people died. Fortunately, the mediation continued and elections were held on March 4, 2010, with very little violence. Of course, we are not there yet, but overall, things went well. All the observers acknowledged that. President Faure Gnassingbé will be sworn in and take office on May 3, in anticipation of the opening of the second legislature.

That situation is different from the one in Niger, for example, where, as you know, President Tandja has decided to give himself the means to extend his mandate, contrary to the Constitution. He dissolved the National Assembly, the Supreme Court and the Independent National Electoral Commission, then held a referendum for which voter turnout was extremely low. That led to the results we are aware of. There was a coup d'État—there is no other way of describing it. I believe elections will be held in a year at most, fortunately. The reasons for these events are different again, compared to Togo. There was clearly a determination to violate the fundamental law of the country—the Constitution. Amending its provisions was prohibited.

The situation is different, once again, in Côte d'Ivoire. As you know, there is still the issue of the north and south. There was a civil war and other events of which you are aware. The situation in Guinea is different again. Generally speaking, I would say that the reasons are as follows: its colonial past, non-collaborative power management, the relative youth of all these countries, probably, and ethnicity, in certain cases. Those are some of the causes, as I see it. Fortunately, my President is frequently invited to contribute his experience and encourage talks between the parties involved in the conflict. The fact is that, if there is no peace, it will be impossible to effectively fight poverty. Without legitimacy, there can be no good governance either.

As regards my view of political developments in the region, and even in Africa, I think things are starting to change. As a result of the vision articulated by the African Union and the ECOWAS, all unconstitutional powers are now unacceptable. Under those conditions, I think each country will tend to want to emphasize a certain recognized legitimacy, in accordance with constitutional provisions. Hence the importance of the discussions we are holding. Countries like Canada, which have experience, vision and have had a system in place for some time now, can help us to fight poverty and establish good governance. They can also provide the necessary assistance that will enable us to redistribute the wealth that is created, thereby creating greater serenity.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Rae.

I want to thank the minister, the ambassador, and all of you for being here today.

I'm just going to ask you to sit in your seats for a second. There were some journalists who wanted to take some pictures. Because of our late start, they're going to come in and do that. Then we're going to just suspend the meeting for about five minutes so we can change the witnesses.

So if I could ask you to keep your seats just for one second, we'll get a couple of shots from the media and then we'll suspend.

Once again, thank you very much for being here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the representatives of Agir Ensemble pour la Paix au Congo are here today. I believe we have Mr. Kabeya, who is going to be giving us a presentation.

Sir, I'm going to welcome you. I believe you have some opening comments. After your opening comments we'll go around the room and ask some questions.

Mr. Kabeya, the floor is yours. You have ten minutes.

[Lievin Mudi Wa Mbuji Kabeya, Coordinator, Agir Ensemble pour la Paix au Congo]

Ladies and gentlemen, members of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, we are an umbrella organization devoted to defending rights and promoting peace, both in Canada and outside the country. Developments affecting the democratic life of the Congo, as it transitions to a constitutional State, is mobilizing all our energy. We are engaged in a ruthless fight against anything that restricts freedom in the African Great Lakes region and the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

We understand that we may be a thorn in the side of those who are seeking compromise with the oppressors and expecting rewards and emoluments. However, nothing will stop our fight, as long as the bright rays of freedom are not shining on the Congo, but they will shine. Congolese with a love of peace require the sincere support of Canada. As Canadians of Congolese origin, we need the support of free and democratic countries, like Canada, to restore peace to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, whose sub-soil is described as a geological scandal. Supporting the restoration of peace is the best investment that Canada can make in the Congo's development and towards increased business opportunities. The Congo has everything, but it is lacking two things: peace and peace, which would allow it to become the engine for development throughout Central Africa.

Distinguished members of Parliament, we are honoured to have this opportunity to appear before your Committee. We want to extend our sincere thanks, on behalf of the 6 million Congolese who were killed and the thousands of Congolese women who have been raped by the soldiers of Paul Kagame's Rwandan Patriotic Front, which has been terrorizing the entire Great Lakes region since 1996, and particularly the Democratic Republic of the Congo. It is on behalf of these victims that we have come to meet with our elected members of Parliament today.

In our brief of November 11, 2008 and in a follow-up letter in May 2009, addressed to the Prime Minister of Canada—copies of which you have received—we provide specific, detailed information on Paul Kagame's responsibility for, not only the design, planning and execution of the April 6, 1994 attack—which triggered the genocide in Rwanda—but also the genocide of Hutus in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and the silent genocide of 6 million Congolese, which continues to this day.

There will be no peace, either in the Great Lakes region or the Democratic Republic of the Congo, as long as the perpetrators of these war crimes, crimes against humanity and serious human right violations—which are well documented—continue to be protected with impunity and tailor-made amnesties. An illustrious Canadian of Congolese origin who lives here in Ottawa—without mentioning any names, Mr. Djamba Yohé—said this: “The ransom of crime is not impunity”.

The perpetrators of the serious crimes committed in the Democratic Republic of the Congo since 1996, are not only in Rwanda. They are also in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and are protected from legal proceedings that could be brought against them for their crimes through tailor-made amnesty legislation that they have succeeded in having passed, even though no statutory limitations apply under international law to the crimes of which they are accused.

We have therefore come before our elected members to ask you to do everything you possibly can to assuage the unspeakable suffering that Paul Kagame and his accomplices, who have infiltrated the inner workings and machinery of the Congolese government, are inflicting on the bruised Congolese people, and to immediately put him in a place where he can cause no more harm.

The perpetrators of crimes against humanity are also hiding in Kigali and Kinshasa. So, we are here to ask our members of Parliament to do everything in their power to ensure that Canada provides more, sustained support to civil society actors who are risking their own lives to speak out in Beni, Goma, Kisangani and Ituri against the crimes and massacres that the current authorities are attempting to cover up when they are committed by Rwanda.

We have come to give you evidence of crimes committed by members of the CNDP that authorities in Kinshasa have brought into national institutions as a reward for the massacres they committed.

Our first concern, regarding which we would like to provide relevant information to your Committee, has to do with the perpetrators of the serious crimes committed in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, crimes which remain unpunished.

Our second concern relates to Canada's indifference to developments in the Democratic Republic of the Congo which, since the 2006 elections, has gone from drifting towards authoritarianism, to quote the words of the FIDH, to democratic initiatives that have become completely bogged down, as described by the International Crisis Group led by our fellow Canadian, Ms. Louise Arbour. In statements by the Catholic bishops of the Congo in July 2008 and July 2009, corruption is described as the “general living environment and context of political action in the Democratic Republic of the Congo”.

Did Canada spend taxpayers' money funding elections in the Democratic Republic of the Congo to see the establishment of a constitutional State in the heart of Africa, as opposed to giving a semblance of legality to a regime that represses and tortures people and then rewards the perpetrators of serious crimes with government positions and amnesties?

Which side is Canada on? Is it on the side of democracy and the people, or it is on the side of leaders that some say were armed by Canadian mining companies to take power through violence? We have also brought with us documentation with respect to the worries—and even complaints—that Canadian mining companies have fuelled in the DRC. That is our third concern.

Distinguished members of Parliament, our organization, Agir ensemble pour la paix au Congo, was created at the request of 23 community organizations and key figures who formed a coalition in 2006 in order that Paul Kagame would be refused authorization to come to Canada. Also, Agir ensemble pour la paix au Congo, of which I am the coordinator, gave itself the mandate to work to promote peace in war torn areas, particularly the Democratic Republic of Congo. There can be no development without peace.

In closing, I would like to present our recommendations for the restoration of a sustainable peace in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Distinguished members of Parliament, our recommendations are as follows: that steps be taken to put an end to the systematic looting of the natural resources of the Democratic Republic of the Congo by neighbouring states, armed groups and multinationals, some of which have their head office in free and democratic countries such as Canada, Great Britain, the United States of America, Australia or France; that a parliamentarian commission of inquiry be set up to investigate the activities of mining companies in the Democratic Republic of the Congo; that a parliamentary commission of inquiry be set up to clarify the links between the Rwandan genocide and the successive wars that have wrought havoc in the Democratic Republic of the Congo; that a parliamentary commission be set up to clarify the circumstances in which Canadian priests were assassinated; that support be provided to civil society actors in the Congo who are fighting the planned balkanization of the Congo; that ways and means be found to give effect to international arrest warrants so that the persons named in those warrants can be brought before the competent judicial authorities; that steps be taken to implement the different agreements relating to the restoration of peace in Eastern Congo; and, that Canadians of Congolese origin be involved in all activities that you undertake with a view to peace in the Congo.

Thank you for your kind attention.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

We're now going to start our first round. Go ahead, Mr. Rae, for seven minutes, sir.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Kabeya, I want to thank you for your important presentation. I think it is essential to call attention, once again, to the extraordinary level of violence that your country has suffered for 20 or more years. Members of Parliament recognize that this is, indeed, the most violent part of the world, and has been for quite some time. As a country, whatever the party in office, we continue, in cooperation with the United Nations, to try and create opportunities for greater stability in the Congo.

I would like to begin by expressing one thought. The dilemma we are facing is that a sovereign government is in power in the Congo. That is a reality. The Congo is a member of the United Nations. It has a government and a president. There is a political reality in the Congo, and it is not possible, either for a country such as Canada or the United Nations, to claim that such a government does not exist. There is a government in place.

Your recommendations lead me to believe that there is no government in the Congo. Yes, there are mining companies, but there is also a government which is responsible for legislation, the environment and the activities of those companies within its own borders. We are currently discussing Bill C-300, an Act respecting corporate accountability for the activities of mining, oil or gas corporations in developing countries, which deals directly with the issue of mining companies' activities. Naturally, Liberal members of Parliament support the important principle of the social responsibility of large Canadian companies and corporations. At the same time, we have to give some thought to the current reality. If there are currently U.N. troops in the Congo, they are there with the support of the Congo government. If the government of the Congo said it did not want troops in its territory, there would not be any. It would be very difficult for the United Nations to be there without being invited by the government. It is very similar to the situation in Afghanistan. We are in Afghanistan at the invitation of the President of that country, even though many people have questions about Mr. Karzaï's government.

I would like to receive a clear response from you on this. Am I to understand that you and your group do not recognize the legality of President Kabila's government? This is an important question.

[Lievin Mudi Wa Mbuji Kabeya]

Thank you for your question. Dr. Jean M'Pania Pene Membele and Marc Kapenda will answer that question.

Go ahead, Doctor.

[Jean Pene Membele, Member, Agir Ensemble pour la Paix au Congo]

Thank you.

To answer your question about legality, there were obviously elections in the Congo in 2006, which resulted in the establishment of new institutions, with an elected President of the Republic and a Parliament, but in my opinion, elections are not enough to legitimize someone's power. Elections must be followed by actual government operations on the ground. For example, there must be a demonstration of the government's responsibility for managing the affairs of state.

To come back to the example of Canadian companies developing ore in the Congo, well before 1996, at the time of the AFDL's so-called “liberation” war, companies were already signing contracts with rebels who had not yet won power. Subsequently, when the AFDL took office, these companies signed what we, as Congolese observers, call “one-sided contracts”—in other words, contracts that in no way benefit the DRC or the people of the Congo.

If we are bringing this problem to Parliament, and to your Committee, it is because all the reports confirm that these companies are not at all complying with Canadian ethical principles with respect to ore development outside of Canada. It is a dilemma that you, yourself, have pointed to. There is a government in place, but that government is irresponsible. Yes, it does exist, but should we allow an irresponsible government to destroy an entire country, an entire nation? That government is incapable of ensuring the safety of people and property.

The eastern region of the country has been practically abandoned to the Rwandans. A responsible government should not be bringing soldiers from Laurent Nkunda's CNDP army who have been fighting and killing in the eastern part of the country, and who have raped women. He has brought them into the army. Through communiqués, we are now hearing that these same CNDP soldiers are raping women on a daily basis and burning down people's huts and houses. So, what we are dealing with is a government that is completely incapable of carrying out its duties.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rae.

We're going to move to Madame Deschamps for seven minutes.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Time permitting, I will share some of my time with my colleague, Mr. Dorion.

Last week, Oxfam International released a report which deals specifically with the whole issue of sexual violence against women in the Congo. I took a look at it. It is quite incredible to see that these odious crimes continue to go unpunished in the Congo, even though it is said that the Congo's anti-rape legislation is among the most progressive in Africa. The current situation in the Congo is extremely worrisome. It is very worrisome to see these kinds of attacks against women.

We know that the President has called for the withdrawal of MONUC by June, 2011. What will happen after that, when there is no longer a U.N. mission there; what will the impact of that be? What will women be facing if there is no longer any international organization on the ground? Could Canada play a role there?

I have a number of questions. I would like you to comment on the tragedy in the Congo.

[Alfred Lukhanda, Member, Agir Ensemble pour la Paix au Congo]

Thank you for your question. You are right to say that this unacceptable and that these crimes continue to go unpunished. Indeed, we have come to provide evidence that they continue to go unpunished. We have tons of documents on this. If MONUC withdraws, it will be a disaster; it is as simple as that. We do not think this is the time to let MONUC leave, because we are talking about a country where the armies are going around raping, killing and massacring. There are reports on this. In terms of violence against women, we have brought with us a report by Human Rights Watch. That is made clear in the report.

Along the same lines, I would say that we have an army crossing the border. There is violence occurring, and we are doing everything we can to identify the perpetrators. That report identifies the perpetrators of this violence. They are part of the Congolese army, the FARDC. However, the Rwandan army has been crossing the borders since 1996. This has resulted in 16 deaths. From the perspective of the Congolese army, this violence is one more weapon of warfare. The plan is to rape and infect women with AIDS in order to wipe out the population and make room for the overflow Rwandan population. Imagine, a government that would ask for that to be done, when there is no army, and when members of the Rwandan army have joined the official army. It would be as though Canada was at war against a country and citizens of that country joined the Canadian army. Can that be happening?